Combination Planes - The differences

[SteveB43]

Hi David,
To help with all things re Handplanes, it might be worth getting a copy of Planecraft by CW Hampton and E Clifford.
Yes, I know it's a bit of a Record tools sales manual but I've found it invaluable with questions and queries I've had on the 43, 44 50 and the rebate planes. It's the manual you wish the tools came with.
Amazon is the place and there are a few copies on there now for around a Tenner plus PnP of course....

It doesn't cover the post 70s stuff that Record did, but those are more fun for another post, especially that nylon depth stop.
Cheers
Steve,

 

[Bluekingfisher]

As a result of the info you boys provided I had a look on the bay and saw a Stanley 45 ending in a couple of hours, so I put in my max bid to see what happened. As it turned out no one else put in a bid so I got what I thought was a good deal.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261495670027? ... 1439.l2649

With some left over from my max bid I bid for this one too, and got it as no one else placed a bid.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stanley-50-Co ... true&rt=nc

While still in the mood and within budget I took this one as well.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171350424509? ... 1439.l2649

So for just over 100 quid (not including P+P) I got a nice little haul.

I'm looking at a Record 043 too so if that turns out I will have lots to learn and tinker with. I may have to find a manual for them, just to aid my learning curve.

Thanks for all the advice fellahs.

David

 

[bugbear]

As a result of the info you boys provided I had a look on the bay and saw a Stanley 45 ending in a couple of hours, so I put in my max bid to see what happened. As it turned out no one else put in a bid so I got what I thought was a good deal.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/261495670027? ... 1439.l2649

With some left over from my max bid I bid for this one too, and got it as no one else placed a bid.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stanley-50-Co ... true&rt=nc

While still in the mood and within budget I took this one as well.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171350424509? ... 1439.l2649

So for just over 100 quid (not including P+P) I got a nice little haul.

I'm looking at a Record 043 too so if that turns out I will have lots to learn and tinker with. I may have to find a manual for them, just to aid my learning curve.

Thanks for all the advice fellahs.

David

Here's some more advice; sharpen the cutters on an "as needed" basis (and grease or vaseline the ones you store). Sharpening ALL that lot in one go would drive you crazy.

BugBear

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Nice one, David - or should I call you E***u ?

 

[Vann]

That Stanley No.50 looks to be in particularly nice condition. Well done.

Cheers, Vann.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Can we now look forward to hearing how they actually compare ?

You did well there. The 78 is nice and complete too.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Thanks fellahs for the vote of confidence on the purchases. I hope they turn out to be useable rather than becoming a doorstop for the workshop.

Bugbear - I hear you loud and clear. I have just finished fettling several bench planes, quite a labourious chore but worth it in the end. However i have only just managed to clear the layer of black dust from all the lapping.

phil.p................... E***u? I hope that's not a naughty word?? lol

Thanks again boys, lots of good advice there

David.

 

[Vann]

I hope they turn out to be useable rather than becoming a doorstop for the workshop...

Doorstop !?! I thought they were boat anchors? :mrgreen:

http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/combinationplanes.html

Cheers, Vann.

 

[J_SAMa]

Record 044 and 050 are my favorite. I like how the 050 has an extra mechanism for attaching the smallest blades. Unlike many people here I actually find the bead cutters alright... You're probably not going to NEED another plough/tonguing/beading for some time but do expect to spent some time getting the No. 45 set up every time... I never really liked them for cross grain rebates, and I recently bought a wooden moving fillester. It's not perfect (just as any other old woody) but the skew cutter just puts it in a different league. Also the nicker is a little more easy to use, and much, much easier to sharpen.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Record 044 and 050 are my favorite. I like how the 050 has an extra mechanism for attaching the smallest blades. Unlike many people here I actually find the bead cutters alright... You're probably not going to NEED another plough/tonguing/beading for some time but do expect to spent some time getting the No. 45 set up every time... I never really liked them for cross grain rebates, and I recently bought a wooden moving fillester. It's not perfect (just as any other old woody) but the skew cutter just puts it in a different league. Also the nicker is a little more easy to use, and much, much easier to sharpen.

I was hoping to cut cross grain housing joints. Are the 044 0r 50 not suited to this application??

David

 

[bugbear]

Record 044 and 050 are my favorite. I like how the 050 has an extra mechanism for attaching the smallest blades. Unlike many people here I actually find the bead cutters alright... You're probably not going to NEED another plough/tonguing/beading for some time but do expect to spent some time getting the No. 45 set up every time... I never really liked them for cross grain rebates, and I recently bought a wooden moving fillester. It's not perfect (just as any other old woody) but the skew cutter just puts it in a different league. Also the nicker is a little more easy to use, and much, much easier to sharpen.

I was hoping to cut cross grain housing joints. Are the 044 0r 50 not suited to this application??

David

The #50 has nickers, the #044 doesn't.

BugBear

 

[Bluekingfisher]

Record 044 and 050 are my favorite. I like how the 050 has an extra mechanism for attaching the smallest blades. Unlike many people here I actually find the bead cutters alright... You're probably not going to NEED another plough/tonguing/beading for some time but do expect to spent some time getting the No. 45 set up every time... I never really liked them for cross grain rebates, and I recently bought a wooden moving fillester. It's not perfect (just as any other old woody) but the skew cutter just puts it in a different league. Also the nicker is a little more easy to use, and much, much easier to sharpen.

I was hoping to cut cross grain housing joints. Are the 044 0r 50 not suited to this application??

David

The #50 has nickers, the #044 doesn't.

BugBear

Thank you =D>

 

[woodbrains]

I was hoping to cut cross grain housing joints. Are the 044 0r 50 not suited to this application??

David

Hello,

The 044 can be used cross grain, if the housing is marked with a knife or a marking gauge, which will compensate for the lack of nickers. (Ooh err).

However neither the 044 nor 050 are much use for housings any further from the edge than about 5 inches, as the fence rails limit the distance from an edge. No use for bookshelves and the like. You could use custom, long fence rods, I suppose. But then the housings can't be stopped, either, so personally I would get a router plane for housings. You look like you need an excuse for another plane!

Mike.

 

[Bluekingfisher]

I was hoping to cut cross grain housing joints. Are the 044 0r 50 not suited to this application??

David

Hello,

The 044 can be used cross grain, if the housing is marked with a knife or a marking gauge, which will compensate for the lack of nickers. (Ooh err).

However neither the 044 nor 050 are much use for housings any further from the edge than about 5 inches, as the fence rails limit the distance from an edge. No use for bookshelves and the like. You could use custom, long fence rods, I suppose. But then the housings can't be stopped, either, so personally I would get a router plane for housings. You look like you need an excuse for another plane!

Mike.

Thanks Mike for the info, I'll let SWMBO know that Mike said I need a router plane too.

Great stuff

David

 

[bugbear]

I was hoping to cut cross grain housing joints. Are the 044 0r 50 not suited to this application??

David

Hello,

The 044 can be used cross grain, if the housing is marked with a knife or a marking gauge, which will compensate for the lack of nickers. (Ooh err).

However neither the 044 nor 050 are much use for housings any further from the edge than about 5 inches, as the fence rails limit the distance from an edge. No use for bookshelves and the like. You could use custom, long fence rods, I suppose. But then the housings can't be stopped, either, so personally I would get a router plane for housings. You look like you need an excuse for another plane!

Mike.

For cross grain work, (e.g. housing the shelves in a bookcase) you'd probably be using a clamped board as a guide, not the built in fences. Your point about stopped housing remains, of course.

BugBear

 

[Paul Chapman]

One point worth bearing in mind about the cross-grain spurs (or nickers) on combination planes is that they are (generally) non-adjustable and, as supplied, are really too long. In addition to ensuring they are sharp, you'll probably find it best to shorten them - they need only cut a very shallow score line. This will obviously shorten their life a bit, but most have three cutting surfaces.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[woodbrains]

I was hoping to cut cross grain housing joints. Are the 044 0r 50 not suited to this application??

David

Hello,

The 044 can be used cross grain, if the housing is marked with a knife or a marking gauge, which will compensate for the lack of nickers. (Ooh err).

However neither the 044 nor 050 are much use for housings any further from the edge than about 5 inches, as the fence rails limit the distance from an edge. No use for bookshelves and the like. You could use custom, long fence rods, I suppose. But then the housings can't be stopped, either, so personally I would get a router plane for housings. You look like you need an excuse for another plane!

Mike.

For cross grain work, (e.g. housing the shelves in a bookcase) you'd probably be using a clamped board as a guide, not the built in fences. Your point about stopped housing remains, of course.

BugBear

Hello,

You could try running the plane, sans fences, rods etc, against a clamped board, it may well depend on the specific combo plane in question. But generally, the blades do not sit flush with the side of the skate, they are recessed into the plane body just a bit deeper than the skate edge. This means that the skate will not necessarily run against the edge of a board. My 044 is definitely like this, I will check my others at the weekend, though if memory serves my 405 is the same. I also have a 050C and a 044C which I seldom use (read never, they are horrible) and I think they may be just the same. Perhaps different vintages of Records may be better for this and I do not have Stanley's to comment, though since they were not designed for this, per se, I don't think there would have been any care taken in manufacture, to get the blade edge and skate level.

Mike.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

 I also have a 050C and a 044C which I seldom use (read never, they are horrible) and I think they may be just the same. Perhaps different vintages of Records may be better for this and I do not have Stanley's to comment, though since they were not designed for this, per se, I don't think there would have been any care taken in manufacture, to get the blade edge and skate level.

Mike.

Go on then. What don't you like about the 050C. I have one and find it ok; is it the styling and plastic handle, or function ? I think it could eject the shavings better without clogging up so often, any other problems ?

 

[woodbrains]

 I also have a 050C and a 044C which I seldom use (read never, they are horrible) and I think they may be just the same. Perhaps different vintages of Records may be better for this and I do not have Stanley's to comment, though since they were not designed for this, per se, I don't think there would have been any care taken in manufacture, to get the blade edge and skate level.

Mike.

Go on then. What don't you like about the 050C. I have one and find it ok; is it the styling and plastic handle, or function ? I think it could eject the shavings better without clogging up so often, any other problems ?

Hello,

Maybe it is ergonomics, but I don't get on well with the 050. I don't like the auxiliary skate being shorter, it seems to work less well. At first I thought it was the weight (lack of) because th 405 is much heavier and I get on with really well. But I have since got an 044 which is much lighter, and works a treat. I don't mind modern styling as such, I like Veritas styling for instance, so it is not the plastic handle, except that it is a really awful forward angle. Modern thinking is to have less shaping and more plight handles, which don't always feel as comfy, but have less user fatigue. Maybe this is it. Like anything, it is a lot of small insignificant details which add up to something that doesn't suit. Oh, the nickers on the 050 are a bit crude, though probably could be sorted, I haven't since I don't like the tool in the first place. I always wanted to try and make a new handle for it and if that improved things, then fix the rest, but it is just one of a long list of 'to do's'.

Mike.

 

[J_SAMa]

Thanks Mike for the info, I'll let SWMBO know that Mike said I need a router plane too.

Great stuff

David

In all seriousness, take a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_2a_FwjAgk
Now that's great stuff...

Even if you were to get a router plane, you shouldn't dismiss paring. Before I discovered the video above I'd been paring tenons, dadoes and the like for a few months, some of them up to 5 inches wide. They were good practice for me, I learned how to really control a chisel. The joints fit OK (not super tight piston fit but OK). Most of them were hollowed out in the middle but that was fine, at least better than being convex. Nowadays I still find that paring is much faster than a router (I'm probably just really bad at using a router). I still have a long way to go before I can rely on my paring skills completely and I do wish to do so, someday...
One disadvantage to paring though is that you can't reach deep enough into half blind dadoes... Only the length of your chisel blade and most bookshelves have half blind dadoes much longer than that.
Sam