Climate change policy

[cerro]

Keir Starmer on his climate change the man lives in a bubble. When Russia India China and uncle Sam stop pouring smoke into the sky, not to mention all the wood fires in the world Alaska, all the ski resorts, Air planes, Trains, heavy lorries. Our electric car target of 81% is a drop in the ocean Mean while we all have to suffer.

 

[RobinBHM]

Keir Starmer on his climate change the man lives in a bubble. When Russia India China and uncle Sam stop pouring smoke into the sky, not to mention all the wood fires in the world Alaska, all the ski resorts, Air planes, Trains, heavy lorries. Our electric car target of 81% is a drop in the ocean Mean while we all have to suffer.

what makes you think we all have to suffer?

there is a green technology race happening, if we arent involved we will get left behind

Do you remember the recent energy crisis when our energy almost doubled in price? -was it caused it renewables or fossil fuels?

 

[Sideways]

Discuss climate change policy by all means. If we can't keep political slanging out of it this goes to OT2.

 

[cerro]

what makes you think we all have to suffer?

there is a green technology race happening, if we arent involved we will get left behind

Do you remember the recent energy crisis when our energy almost doubled in price? -was it caused it renewables or fossil fuels?

Yes It looks like Russia,China, India, USA are leading the green technology race

 

[ey_tony]

Yes It looks like Russia,China, India, USA are leading the green technology race

..and so they damned well SHOULD! Those 4 countries between them contribute 57.43% of the world's Co2 output!

They're the ones who should be leading the way and not expecting such as the UK to set the standards which contributes many times less than the lowest performers in that group.
Before we start stripping back our country's ability to remain competitive against these Co2 big players, let them bring down their output to similar levels and then let us adopt this net zero nonsense and not before.

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

..and so they damned well SHOULD! Those 4 countries between them contribute 57.43% of the world's Co2 output!

They're the ones who should be leading the way and not expecting such as the UK to set the standards which contributes many times less than the lowest performers in that group.
Before we start stripping back our country's ability to remain competitive against these Co2 big players, let them bring down their output to similar levels and then let us adopt this net zero nonsense and not before.

Ah yes, the stubborn and obstreperous approach - that will surely motivate these countries to act with even more enthusiasm.

Or not!

 

[ey_tony]

Ah yes, the stubborn and obstreperous approach - that will surely motivate these countries to act with even more enthusiasm.

Or not!

I don't give a monkey's what approach is used as long as those in charge of the UK don't sell the UK out just to virtue signal ...let those who pollute most start by reducing their outputs accordingly and then let us join in and do out bit.

 

[Chris152]

I don't give a monkey's what approach is used as long as those in charge of the UK don't sell the UK out just to virtue signal ...let those who pollute most start by reducing their outputs accordingly and then let us join in and do out bit.

Or maybe those who over the last couple of centuries have created, both home and abroad, most pollution?

 

[cerro]

..and so they damned well SHOULD! Those 4 countries between them contribute 57.43% of the world's Co2 output!

They're the ones who should be leading the way and not expecting such as the UK to set the standards which contributes many times less than the lowest performers in that group.
Before we start stripping back our country's ability to remain competitive against these Co2 big players, let them bring down their output to similar levels and then let us adopt this net zero nonsense and not be

..and so they damned well SHOULD! Those 4 countries between them contribute 57.43% of the world's Co2 output!

They're the ones who should be leading the way and not expecting such as the UK to set the standards which contributes many times less than the lowest performers in that group.
Before we start stripping back our country's ability to remain competitive against these Co2 big players, let them bring down their output to similar levels and then let us adopt this net zero nonsense and not before.

 

[cerro]

..and so they damned well SHOULD! Those 4 countries between them contribute 57.43% of the world's Co2 output!

They're the ones who should be leading the way and not expecting such as the UK to set the standards which contributes many times less than the lowest performers in that group.
Before we start stripping back our country's ability to remain competitive against these Co2 big players, let them bring down their output to similar levels and then let us adopt this net zero nonsense and not before.

It was ment to be sarcastic Tony

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

Or maybe those who over the last couple of centuries have created, both home and abroad, most pollution?

I've had this quote on standby since my last post, awaiting the inimitable tony's response, expecting him to describe how he doesn't personally give a monkeys... So thank you for the poignant introduction:

United Kingdom: The UK was the world's first industrialized nation and the first to emit fossil-fuel CO2. In the first 100 years of the Industrial Revolution, the UK emitted 3.7 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide. By the mid-19th century, the UK had produced almost four gigatonnes of CO2. The UK was the world's largest CO2 emitter in 1850, when its emissions were nearly six times those of the United States. However, the US surpassed the UK as the world's largest emitter in 1911.




^This is why the UK, if we have any conscience at all, ought not just stand by the touch line and say things such as "I don't give a monkeys".

I expect that some people will just not understand this concept - but we need to start to act as a whole planet, as well as a whole country, instead of acting like just one person, because we don't exist in a vacuum.

 

[RobinBHM]

Yes It looks like Russia,China, India, USA are leading the green technology race

I thought perhaps you had started a thread on climate change because you wanted to engage in meaningful debate

I was wrong

 

[RobinBHM]

I don't give a monkey's what approach is used as long as those in charge of the UK don't sell the UK out just to virtue signal ...let those who pollute most start by reducing their outputs accordingly and then let us join in and do out bit.

Tony here is something for you to think about

this is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody.

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it.
Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it.

Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody’s job.


Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn’t do it.
It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done

and the world ended because Tony said: somebody should do it

 

[RobinBHM]

Before we start stripping back our country's ability

electricity from renewable energy is cheaper than from fossil fuels

and renewable energy is not subject to global oil markets, Puting, OPEC etc

its ironic how brexit supporters believe in self determination, but are against building an energy supply that is with in our control

 

[ey_tony]

I've had this quote on standby since my last post, awaiting the inimitable tony's response, expecting him to describe how he doesn't personally give a monkeys... So thank you for the poignant introduction:

United Kingdom: The UK was the world's first industrialized nation and the first to emit fossil-fuel CO2. In the first 100 years of the Industrial Revolution, the UK emitted 3.7 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide. By the mid-19th century, the UK had produced almost four gigatonnes of CO2. The UK was the world's largest CO2 emitter in 1850, when its emissions were nearly six times those of the United States. However, the US surpassed the UK as the world's largest emitter in 1911.




^This is why the UK, if we have any conscience at all, ought not just stand by the touch line and say things such as "I don't give a monkeys".

I expect that some people will just not understand this concept - but we need to start to act as a whole planet, as well as a whole country, instead of acting like just one person, because we don't exist in a vacuum.

There's always one who wants to pour scorn linked to the past on the UK and they've just emerged from under the bridge. I'll wager it's made their day.

I wasn't alive in the 19th Century and neither was anyone else, either in this country or elsewhere. It's what is happening now that counts.
If we're going to backdate everything then we should compare and contrast all of the other countries likewise.

Currently China produces over 37 times more Co2 than the UK while the USA, India and Russia produce between them 27 times more than the UK.

Come back with accurate figures for all four of those nations as you've done with the UK and then we can have a meaningful discussion.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

..and so they damned well SHOULD! Those 4 countries between them contribute 57.43% of the world's Co2 output!

They're the ones who should be leading the way and not expecting such as the UK to set the standards which contributes many times less than the lowest performers in that group.
Before we start stripping back our country's ability to remain competitive against these Co2 big players, let them bring down their output to similar levels and then let us adopt this net zero nonsense and not before.

India emissions per capita are ~40% of the UK. Should we focus on the high emitters in total, emissions per capita, or assert all need to get their act together.

Penalising India simply because they have a large population seems unfair. Re-calculating each country or per capita by the CO2 embedded in consumption may drive China down the league table given their role in global manufacturing.

Simplistic comments are lacking in moral decency, scientific rigour and practical logic. Cheap soundbites are not the solution - they are denial in disguise based upon unsubstantiated illogical nonsense

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

There's always one who wants to pour scorn linked to the past on the UK and they've just emerged from under the bridge. I'll wager it's made their day.

I wasn't alive in the 19th Century and neither was anyone else, either in this country or elsewhere. It's what is happening now that counts.
If we're going to backdate everything then we should compare and contrast all of the other countries likewise.

Currently China produces over 37 times more Co2 than the UK while the USA, India and Russia produce between them 27 times more than the UK.

Come back with accurate figures for all four of those nations as you've done with the UK and then we can have a meaningful discussion.

Perpetually thinking in a vacuum, eh tony?

What "scorn". That's not true. It's just that I discuss these things with "receipts" and evidence. It is a statement of fact. Neither derision nor congratulatory. The basic fact remains that *you enjoy the fruits* (as we all do in this country) of a past built upon being the worlds first industrialised nation.

As I keep saying, you are not an island. The boat has a hole in the stern. You may be at the prow, looking on at the people in the stern bailing it out. But I wonder if you can't see the pointlessness of shouting, "I'm not at that end of the boat - you guys had better bail that water out faster - while I sit here enjoying the sensation of the gentle wind in my hair"

 

[Hypnotic Chimera]

India emissions per capita are ~40% of the UK. Should we focus on the high emitters in total, emissions per capita, or assert all need to get their act together.

Penalising India simply because they have a large population seems unfair. Re-calculating each country or per capita by the CO2 embedded in consumption may drive China down the league table given their role in global manufacturing.

Simplistic comments are lacking in moral decency, scientific rigour and practical logic. Cheap soundbites are not the solution - they are denial in disguise based upon unsubstantiated illogical nonsense

Quite.

I wonder if tony ever buys anything made in China??

Nobody is an island...

 

[ey_tony]

India emissions per capita are ~40% of the UK. Should we focus on the high emitters in total, emissions per capita, or assert all need to get their act together.

Penalising India simply because they have a large population seems unfair. Re-calculating each country or per capita by the CO2 embedded in consumption may drive China down the league table given their role in global manufacturing.

Simplistic comments are lacking in moral decency, scientific rigour and practical logic. Cheap soundbites are not the solution - they are denial in disguise based upon unsubstantiated illogical nonsense

It makes no difference whatever metric one uses to determine who is guilty of what with regard Co2 emissions. It's the amount that is emitted by individual countries and not per capita or soundbite which is the benchmark.

All of these measures aimed at achieving net zero in the UK are going to affect the poorest in our society most.
Very few for instance low paid would be able to afford to buy electric vehicles to replace their aging ICE powered vehicle and those living rural areas such as where I live.
They desperately rely upon their vehicles for transport due to there being disgustingly inadequate public transport and are going to have their lives turned upside down and we'll likely see migration from the rural areas to suburbs as a consequence which will put even more pressure on available housing.

The same applies to the retired. Most pensioners I know simply couldn't afford to buy an electric vehicle but rely heavily upon their vehicle to get around so once again it's those who are generally the poorest who will be affected most.
The same applies to the proposed increases in taxes in the form of road fund duty...the poorest are always those most affected so sorry but it doesn't take scientific rigour to see how it's going to affect certain groups.

 

[Croolis]

I've had this quote on standby since my last post, awaiting the inimitable tony's response, expecting him to describe how he doesn't personally give a monkeys... So thank you for the poignant introduction:

United Kingdom: The UK was the world's first industrialized nation and the first to emit fossil-fuel CO2. In the first 100 years of the Industrial Revolution, the UK emitted 3.7 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide. By the mid-19th century, the UK had produced almost four gigatonnes of CO2. The UK was the world's largest CO2 emitter in 1850, when its emissions were nearly six times those of the United States. However, the US surpassed the UK as the world's largest emitter in 1911.




^This is why the UK, if we have any conscience at all, ought not just stand by the touch line and say things such as "I don't give a monkeys".

I expect that some people will just not understand this concept - but we need to start to act as a whole planet, as well as a whole country, instead of acting like just one person, because we don't exist in a vacuum.

Hey, I just posted almost exactly this in the COP thread . What;s going on? Shall I copy and paste it in here? I mean this whole thread is just a sub-discussion of the other thread godammit .