Chisels - how low can you go?

[Graham Orm]

The version of the chisel I 'tested to destruction' was put through a somewhat more rigorous test than Andy's. The handle shattered as if it were toffee into several pieces. I was using the chisel to chop out a joist at an awkward angle so wanted to get it done quickly, which meant using a big hammer. I dare say a more expensive chisel would have shown battle scars but I'd have been surprised if it had simply disintegrated. The tang was about an inch long as I remember and pointed, so not much use for any form of wooden handle thereafter.

 

[Jacob]

...
Regarding the LN socket handles; that method of affixing a handle is actually superb.

Except they drop off, which is why they sell spare handles. I've never had a handle drop off any chisel of mine. I'm sure you are right though - their handle fixing is actually superb, except for the dropping off-ness tendency. No doubt the MKIV model will remedy this......

Come to think - LN are the only ones who sell spare handles for their own chisels (could be wrong). Very clever of them to design in a fault and sell the remedy!
Never give a sucker an even break. :lol: (WC Fields)
The cheaper remedy for lose wooden socket handles is to wet them and let them rust in. I know this from struggling to remove one from an old chisel.

 

[Corneel]

So Mike, you deem a firmer chisel defective, because it is a firmer? That's real tool snobbery!

I don't really want to defend Andy's chisel. From what I read the steel is abit too soft and the handle seems to be really rubish like Grayorm reports. Btw, aren't all tang's about an inch long and pointed?

The problem with the LN sockets is, they are machined not forged like a real socket chisel. That makes the socket too smooth and regular.

 

[iNewbie]

...
Regarding the LN socket handles; that method of affixing a handle is actually superb.

Except they drop off, which is why they sell spare handles. I've never had a handle drop off any chisel of mine. I'm sure you are right though - their handle fixing is actually superb, except for the dropping off-ness tendency. No doubt the MKIV model will remedy this......

Come to think - LN are the only ones who sell spare handles for their own chisels (could be wrong). Very clever of them to design in a fault and sell the remedy!
Never give a sucker an even break. :lol: (WC Fields)
The cheaper remedy for lose wooden socket handles is to wet them and let them rust in. I know this from struggling to remove one from an old chisel.

Is it that they designed them that way - as Stanley did, or just your usual sh*t-stirring?

I see you missed my earlier post about their exceptional customer service, how convenient. Though its not surprising...

You only see one reason as to why they sell the handles, and thats because they're designed to be faulty? LOL

Um....some people damage themselves - which doesn't come under waranty and you can swap handles' - thats why they offer a pairing handle. Now I don't think its down to them to supply BOTH types of handle and not everyone wants both, but its an option... But you keep spinning your tedious sh*te on these makers, Jacob*ll*cks.

 

[Noggsy]

Guys, strong debate is interesting to watch and sometimes even informative, but there's a bit of a tendency at the moment to make things excessively personal. For what it's worth, that's when it stops being fun for me and in my opinion, drags this fantastic forum down a bit. Attack the point, not the person or I think there's a risk of this becoming a less pleasant forum and driving people away.

 

[bugbear]

I think there's a risk of this becoming a less pleasant forum and driving people away.

It's already happened.

For example, Karl Holtey joined, but for "some reason" left fairly soon afterwards.

A loss, I feel.
http://www.holteyplanes.com/

BugBear

 

[Harbo]

Yes Karl and many others including several of the North American Tool Makers.
And not forgetting Alf.

Blown away by the attacks from certain Luddites!

Rod

 

[woodbrains]

So Mike, you deem a firmer chisel defective, because it is a firmer? That's real tool snobbery.

Hello,

If you read my earlier posts, I actually expressed a preference for the second hand Footprint firmer, over a new, cheap, defective tool. Also, if I want a firmer, which have quite different uses to bevel edged chisels (I own a set as well as BE chisels) I would not expect them to have bevels, but I would expect the BE ones to have good ones. Cheeses, it is not tool snobbery to expect the damn things to work as they should. If you think it is, then this would explain why tool quality went so badly down hill that most tools made were defective, until recent manufacturers got their acts together.

Mike.

 

[PalletPaul]

I picked up a set of these from tool station... At first they were ok but like stated length and handle not the best but as I rarely use them for anything tough they've lasted a while.

 

[Corneel]

It is a firmer with an edge decoration. That doesn't make it defective. Nor do the machinemarks when the don't effect the edge.

There are plenty of usefull chisels on the market that don't suit my taste. That doesn't make them defective but it doeg make me a toolsnob.

 

[Jacob]

..... Cheeses, it is not tool snobbery to expect the damn things to work as they should. ......

But in what way do they not work? What could you not do with this cheap chisel? I've asked this several times but all you do is huff and puff!
How would it show in the finished product? Could you say "this has been done with a cheap chisel"?
The point of this thread (I think!) is not that they are ideal, but just that they are not as bad or unusable as some would say.

 

[nanscombe]

Similarly, how many times do we see people buy a cheap plane, strip it down, (re) sharpen it and see it working almost as well as an expensive one does out of the box.

If the handle of a cheap chisel splits after belting it a couple of times with a hammer / mallet .. quell surprise. Perhaps they are simply meant for paring wood by hand rather than hogging out lots of wood.

 

[AndyT]

The point of this thread (I think!) is not that they are ideal, but just that they are not as bad or unusable as some would say.

That is exactly right.

Faults - a bit small, not well balanced, odd handle which might break easily. Probably made in sweatshop conditions.
Virtues - easy to sharpen and it successfully cut hard and soft wood on the tasks it was used for. Cheap.

 

[Jason]

Less usable once the handle has broken off though.

That's the rub for me. If the handle was up to some chopping or even if the tang was suitable for a user made replacement then I'd agree that what we had here was a usable, if not ideal, tool.

As it is though, it's a chisel that can get to work quickly (assuming that they're consistently concave/flat), but that might last you one or two jobs. That's a hefty caveat.

 

[andypa]

I bought a set of cheap chisels for a few pounds. They had clear plastic handles which, when left out in the sun, went all soft and wobbly :lol: Anyway, they sharpened up nicely and were used repairing old woodwork full of nails. Every chisel found a nail.(as expected). Job done, now thrown them away.

 

[Drudgeon]

This thread is a great example of why you do not nessasarily need to spend shed loads on tools, more so with hand tools than power tools, over the years I've worked with a few different apprentices, and I have made the point many times that very expensive tools that are not maintained/sharpened are far less effective than cheap tools that have been well sharpened.

I am a tool lover and would spend a lottery win on tools that I didn't really need, but would love to have, when you can afford the tools that you really want (not need) then it's a huge bonus, but it does not nessasarily mean you produce better work.

Fair play to the OP for going out of his way to prove a point. =D>

 

[Graham Orm]

I doubt if I'm spoiling anyone's bargain here http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silverline-Wo ... 1249880101 Eye protection is a MUST!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

There's somewhere close to me selling sets of 4 Stanley 5002's (the blue handled ones) + oilstone for £16.50!!!

 

[AndyT]

There's somewhere close to me selling sets of 4 Stanley 5002's (the blue handled ones) + oilstone for £16.50!!!

I think that's the same as I showed in the group shot back on page 1 isn't it?

If it is, that's excellent value, whether s/h or new old stock.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes, it's the same. And they're brand new. Shame I've already got about fifty or sixty chisels.