Chisel and Plane Blade Honing Guide Angle Jigs with measurements; Veritas, Marples, and Eclipse.

[Jacob]

But some work better than others.
https://www.google.com/search?q=wer...IOTc4MWowajSoAgCwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Not again.

Déja vu all over again.

 

[BentonTool]

But some work better than others.
https://www.google.com/search?q=wer...IOTc4MWowajSoAgCwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I have always considered the Veritas Mk 2 honing jig to be unnecessarily overly complicated... too many bells & whistles. A design searching for an application...

The KISS principle (keep it simple, stupid) is generally best (IMHO).

For those who wish to use a honing guide, you can not go wrong with the Eclipse-style guides, which are inexpensive and have a tremendous capacity, or a top-clamping model, such as the original Veritas guide... or the Marples (or a similar guide; Millers Falls, etc.), which will accept unusual chisels such as skews.

Personally, I often sharpen freehand.
That being said, I typically fall back on the honing guides when I want an exceptionally sharp blade (e.g. when using an 8000 grit water-stone for my smoothing plane irons).

I have yet to reach the skill level while sharpening freehand that I can consistently avoid rounding-over the edge when engaged in that particular pursuit... in that scenario, the honing guides avoid frustration.

 

[Jacob]

.....

I have yet to reach the skill level while sharpening freehand that I can consistently avoid rounding-over the edge when engaged in that particular pursuit... ,,....

To avoid rounding over is very easy; you simply choose not to do it.
Instead you choose to do the opposite. Could call it "rounding under"!
Start your pass with the tool at the chosen angle (usually 30º) and as you thrust it forwards over the stone you dip it very slightly, to end up at a slightly lower angle.
The edge gets honed at 30º at the start of the pass but as you go forwards the back of the bevel gets taken off at a slightly lower angle - what modern sharpeners would call the primary bevel, but slightly rounded convex.
Might sound tricky but it takes a few seconds to get the idea and becomes natural and easy.
It's very much easier than trying to hone a flat bevel, which doesn't serve any purpose anyway.
It is the way in to freehand sharpening. The other essential is to bring up a burr. If it doesn't happen quickly don't waste your time, go on to a coarser stone. Then back to finer - as fine as you want, plus stropping if you want scary sharp.
For most ordinary purposes the Norton India "medium" grit is good enough.
So it's three things:
rounding under (very slightly):
bringing up (and taking off) a burr:
a little and often (never let the edge go blunt).

 

[Eshmiel]

To avoid rounding over is very easy; you simply choose not to do it.
Instead you choose to do the opposite. Could call it "rounding under"!
Start your pass with the tool at the chosen angle (usually 30º) and as you thrust it forwards over the stone you dip it very slightly, to end up at a slightly lower angle.
The edge gets honed at 30º at the start of the pass but as you go forwards the back of the bevel gets taken off at a slightly lower angle - what modern sharpeners would call the primary bevel, but slightly rounded convex.
Might sound tricky but it takes a few seconds to get the idea and becomes natural and easy.
It's very much easier than trying to hone a flat bevel, which doesn't serve any purpose anyway.
It is the way in to freehand sharpening. The other essential is to bring up a burr. If it doesn't happen quickly don't waste your time, go on to a coarser stone. Then back to finer - as fine as you want, plus stropping if you want scary sharp.
For most ordinary purposes the Norton India "medium" grit is good enough.
So it's three things:
rounding under (very slightly):
bringing up (and taking off) a burr:
a little and often (never let the edge go blunt).

Do you juggle too? Possibly whilst balancing atop a 10 ft pole?

Ignore my sark. I do admire your skill and agree with another poster about the KISS principle. But there's also play ...... . Speed and efficiency are often low in the requirement list when playing.

 

[Jacob]

Do you juggle too? Possibly whilst balancing atop a 10 ft pole?

Ignore my sark.

People do seem anxious to talk themselves out of the possibility of simple sharpening processes.

I do admire your skill and agree with another poster about the KISS principle.

Less skill required compared to the modern sharpening rituals. Any fool can do it. It's easier. That's why I keep going on about it.

But there's also play ...... . Speed and efficiency are often low in the requirement list when playing.

I'd rather be doing woodwork than fiddling with expensive but useless jigs, however many brass knobs they have!

 

[Eshmiel]

People do seem anxious to talk themselves out of the possibility of simple sharpening processes.

Less skill required compared to the modern sharpening rituals. Any fool can do it. It's easier. That's why I keep going on about it.

I'd rather be doing woodwork than fiddling with expensive but useless jigs, however many brass knobs they have!

Brass knobs! Mmmmmmm.

But I sold my Veritas combination plane (for more than I paid for it) after a few years as I'd finished playing with it. It had numerous knobs, doing all sorts.

 

[BentonTool]

Just to throw a little further controversy into this post:
On the topic of a lubricant/cleaner for diamond stones...
I highly recommend that you try a mix of 50% Simple Green® (or similar) and 50% water...
In my experience, it does a great job and is cheap!
I have had NO RUST forming with this concoction.
You probably have some laying about the homestead...
Mix up a small batch & give it a try! You just might like it...

 

[BentonTool]

Most of you have already seen this:
MODIFYING THE ECLIPSE HONING JIG (P.S. A Professional using a honing guide! )

 

[Lons]

Déja vu all over again.

Ever decreasing circles Phil.

 

[Jacob]

Just to throw a little further controversy into this post:
On the topic of a lubricant/cleaner for diamond stones...
I highly recommend that you try a mix of 50% Simple Green® (or similar) and 50% water...
In my experience, it does a great job and is cheap!
I have had NO RUST forming with this concoction.
You probably have some laying about the homestead...
Mix up a small batch & give it a try! You just might like it...
View attachment 197083

I use oil, thinned with white spirit or paraffin etc. It's cleaner than using water.

 

[Eshmiel]

Ever decreasing circles Phil.

Is that a small mob of WW Puritans forming? Why not let J have his say then make an attempt to enjoy the learning got from arguing with 'im.

Ah - arguing agin' your own point of view not allowed, though, eh? Light the bonty and ready the ducking stool!

 

[mudman]

Is that a small mob of WW Puritans forming? Why not let J have his say then make an attempt to enjoy the learning got from arguing with 'im.

Ah - arguing agin' your own point of view not allowed, though, eh? Light the bonty and ready the ducking stool!

How long have you been here? I would have thought that by now you would realise that it's not him having his say that is the issue, it is the endless repetition of his point, the tedious interrupting of people asking about one thing only for him to pop up, yet again, without fail, to spout his same mantra. I do wonder how many people see someone ask a question about a honing guide start their stopwatches to see how long before he pops up again.

 

[SammyQ]

Is that a small mob of WW Puritans forming? Why not let J have his say then make an attempt to enjoy the learning got from arguing with 'im.

Ah - arguing agin' your own point of view not allowed, though, eh? Light the bonty and ready the ducking stool!

Lost your bridge, Mr Troll?

 

[Jacob]

How long have you been here? I would have thought that by now you would realise that it's not him having his say that is the issue, it is the endless repetition of his point, the tedious interrupting of people asking about one thing only for him to pop up, yet again, without fail, to spout his same mantra. I do wonder how many people see someone ask a question about a honing guide start their stopwatches to see how long before the pops up again.

9.22 - that's 10 hours! Sorry a bit slow this morning.
I keep repeating stuff because people keep repeating the same complaints about modern sharpening. It worries me that so many are banging their heads against brick walls and not enjoying what they do!
I'm also intrigued as to how, when, why sharpening was re-invented and made so problematic.

 

[mudman]

9.22 - that's 10 hours! Sorry a bit slow this morning.
I keep repeating stuff because people keep repeating the same complaints about modern sharpening. It worries me that so many are banging their heads against brick walls and not enjoying what they do!
I'm also intrigued as to how, when, why sharpening was re-invented and made so problematic.

That really isn't the reason you keep repeating yourself. It's because you can't resist the temptation to promulgate your own view of how to do things. You think everybody that does something in a different way to you is wrong and that the entire world should bend to your will. Sounds a bit culty really. It wouldn't be out of place in a thread that starts off as 'I say chaps, how does everyone sharpen a chisel?' or perhaps 'Can I get some examples of how others sharpen?' No, you have to interject everywhere. When someone posts his way of achieving consistent angles for his collection of jigs you will pop up with 'You don't want to do that! You should be like me!' Or when someone has an issue you pop up again with 'Well I wouldn't have started from here!'
Oh and you are wrong. People don't keep repeating the same mistakes. The vast majority are happy with their methods, they aren't banging their heads against any brickwalls. You seem to have this strange idea that those that don't follow your mantra must be struggling to get an edge and crying in the wilderness for a saviour to show them the true path. Well, again you are wrong.
I'm pretty sure sharpening was never re-invented, it has always been the same, just more techniques evolved to achieve the same end and people can now choose whatever method they like. There is no problem, you think there is but that is your own cognitive bias creeping in and an inability to accept anything else.

 

[Eshmiel]

Lost your bridge, Mr Troll?

Dear me - anyone with a notion, even tolerance of others' views, is to be dismissed with an easy little sneer, is it? Sneer away if you need to.

 

[Jacob]

.....
I'm pretty sure sharpening was never re-invented,

Jigs have been around for years but not widely used - just for a few amateurs and the "gentleman woodworker" etc. There was a huge explosion of interest in the 1980s I reckon. It passed me by, until I started following internet stuff and I realised it had all changed.
Here's a well known enthusiast.
https://brentbeach.ca/Sharpen/jigarch.html#myjig1
Those early ones are interesting but I bet there are very few in existence, they weren't widely used, unlike the tools themselves of that era, which are extremely common.

 

[mudman]

Jigs have been around for years but not widely used - just for a few amateurs and the "gentleman woodworker" etc. There was a huge explosion of interest in the 1980s I reckon. It passed me by, until I started following internet stuff and I realised it had all changed.
Here's a well known enthusiast.
https://brentbeach.ca/Sharpen/jigarch.html#myjig1
Those early ones are interesting but I bet there are very few in existence, unlike the tools themselves of that era, which are extremely common.

A very cursory search of US patents shows one as early as 1937. As people tend to seek patents for things that have been around for a long time, I can surmise this horrible jig business was happening well before then.

 

[Jacob]

A very cursory search of US patents shows one as early as 1937. As people tend to seek patents for things that have been around for a long time,

T'other way around - people seek patents for things newly invented, in the hopes that they can cash in before anybody else.
They were about much earlier than 1937 if you look at B Beaches site

I can surmise this horrible jig business was happening well before then.

Nothing "horrible" about them but they don't seem to feature much in tool history, collections.
R. L. Keith is typical, I bet he hardly sold any at all and there are zero examples in existence. Come to think, it looks like an appalling design, even worse than the Veritas Mk2!
Typical - a long history of clumsy designs made to solve an imaginary problem.

View attachment 197152