Cheap plumped in dust extraction system

[Krysstel]

Posted this in another thread last week but got (almost) no response. I'll try again now .......

Read with interest in the latest Woodworker where Alan Holtham had used what appeared to be a Record DX5000. His solution of mounting the extrator high up on a wall seems just the thing for my very small shop where I'm fed up with (a) tripping over the vac-pipe trailed across the floor(b) fed up with constantly emptying the vac to keep the filter free and the suction at max. A small, plumbed in system with collector bag is just what I need. Done a little hunting and found the following 3 candidates :-
http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/section/4606/sn/RPWDX5000 £330
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-...e-Dust-Extractor-with-Acoustic-Hood-35528.htm £245
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/GV2861W £240
If my conversions are correct then the Record moves 380 m3/hr, the Ax 195m3/hr and the Camvac 189 m3/hr.
Obviously the Record is the most powerful, but it also costs £100 more.
My question is; are the other 2 up to the task in mind ?
My criteria are :-
A plumbed in system, but probably only max 8m of almost straight solid pipe with max 3 spurs/droppers to machines.
A machine with collection bag.
A 0.5 micron filter capability.
Lowest price.

Any feedback/suggestions/experience/alternatives would be much appreciated

 

[trousers]

Hi Krysstel
It's quite important to know what the 3 machines are that you are going to extract from.
A bit more info then we'll have an answer, hopefully

 

[p111dom]

The DX5000 has two motors which is the one I have. At the moment I can't see your links for some reason. I suspect the Axminster will have one motor as is designates 1000 as in one 1000W motor. Again looking from the airflow I suspect the Camvac has only one motor. The twin motor is definately the way to go and at only £100 for double the suction, that seems like a good deal. Axminster did do a 2000 model which was the same. Definately the beast option if you can cope with the niose.

 

[lurker]

Be aware all of these machines are really chip extractors that have "some dust extraction abilities".

Also postioning the extractor above the extraction inlet will lower efficency. eg at best if the dust/chips inlet is at say chest height the macine should be lower otherwise you are fighting gravity too.

 

[OLD]

Here is a similar question and i describe my system which could be helpful to you, remember fine filters reduce suck.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29018&highlight=

 

[p111dom]

Be aware all of these machines are really chip extractors that have "some dust extraction abilities".

Not so in fact the opposite is true. These are all dust extractors with fine filtration and in fact less suited to chips. I've been able to see the three now as it's as I suspected. Only the Record has dual motors. I have mine hooked up to 11 blast gates running over 36 feet to the furthest away one through 2.5inch ectraction tubes and it all works fine. Even the thicknesser runs through it. Like I said the only drawback is the naise as the motors are brushed. The floor standing chip extractors run with induction motors, sre much quieter but you can't reduce the pipe size down from 4 inch. Both would be the ideal with the floor standing one for a p/t at least. That said I have hooked up...

A sanding machine - brushed extractor required
bandsaw - either or
table saw - either or
mitre saw - either or
morticer - a chip extractor would be better but mine works ok
Router table - brushed extractor essential if routing using MDF.
Planer - Chip would be better. The 2.5 inch pipe clogs sometimes
Thicknesser - as for the planer and requires a blast with an airline now and then.

The extra gates are in place for a bobbin sander not yet bought and a extra port for hand powertools near the workbench. The table saw has two gates, one for the machine and one for the crown guard as there are times when I use the saw without the gaurd.

 

[Krysstel]

Hi Krysstel
It's quite important to know what the 3 machines are that you are going to extract from.
A bit more info then we'll have an answer, hopefully

At bit more info as requested :-
- machine #1 = table saw
- machine #2 = mitre saw
- machine #3 = router table (definately need filtration for MDF)
- machine #4 = outlet for handheld power tools incl. router with MDF

I think I can keep the main duct down to 5 meters in length in a straight run out from the extractor, with flexible tubes down to each machine, say 2 meters each; 4" to the table saw (with 58mm reducer), 4" to the mitre saw (with 32mm reducer), 4" to the router table (with 32mm reducer) and an Axminster http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Power-Tool-Extraction-Hose-794287.htm for the handhelds.
Due to lack of floor space I really want to wall mount the extractor and this would also enable me to run the main duct straight out at ceiling level.
I appreciate that the Record is obviously the better machine, with 2 motors, but wouldn't the Axminster or Rutlands machine be adequate considering the short pipe lengths I'll have ?
At the moment I'm using a shop-vac with fine filter for everything and although it's adequate for the router table and mitre saw, it's not up to the table saw. But the main problem I'm trying to solve is the bl**dy pipe that I keep having to unplug from one machine and reconnect with yet another adaptor to the next. Plus having to clean the filter all the time, especially when working with MDF.
I really need to get this solved ASAP but the solution has to be as cheap as possible ! If I keep spending money on routers and extractors I'll never get to replacing my dreadful t/s !!

Just as a matter of interest, the Record costs £700 in Norway !

 

[trousers]

Hi Krysstel

I would say P111dom has it covered in his last post.

I think any of those 3 machines would cope with your current situation really, but we do not know your table saw capacity (ie does it cut 100mm in one go, or a lot less).

My system uses 63mm pipe for dust (the inlet to the extractor is also 63mm - older Axi WV1000). This is fine for router table/sanding/hand tools/crown guard over the T/S. I use a seperate 150mm system for chip extraction (and under the T/S) and the bandsaw.

All my pipework is at ceiling level, and the extractors are in an adjacent shed. Therefore noise/dust is not really a problem for me. The WV1000 is wall mounted.

You need to think what might happen if you upgrade any of your machines. When I did, my dust/chip extraction needed a complete overhaul as well :roll:

 

[John. B]

Krysstel,
Have you considered getting the car ferry from norway to the Uk.
Locating the nearest shop to the port of entry, buying the extractor putting it in the car then ferry back.
A quick Google found a fair of £150. 00 (GBP) return with a car.
Got to be cheaper option than the shop to ship it to you.
I don't know where you live in Norway but if it is near the coast/ferry terminal it must be worth thinking about?
BTW The record is about £329.00 or so here.

John. B

 

[RogerS]

Krysstel

Have you considered a small cyclone? I have one from ClearVue.

That was the solution that I adopted. I bought adapters for my machines (table saw/router table/thicknesser/planer/spindle moulder/bandsaw) that convert down to the same outlet and so swapping the pipe over is much simpler. I use an adapter flexipipe to connect to my Festool TS55 or orbital sander.

Just a thought.

Roger

 

[Krysstel]

First of all, thanks for all the replies - it really made a difference when I posted in the right place !

Trousers - the Axi WV1000 is top of the list at the moment, mainly because of the price. Axi sell 2 versions; the WV1000P and the MkII. Am I right in thinking the only difference is the acoustic hood ? I'm planing 1 x 100mm flexible pipe to under the t/s and using the router table pipe for the crown guard - just unplug it from the router and plug it into the crown guard. The router table is right next to the t/s, left side.

John B - Paying Norwegian prices is not an option - I only mentioned the price of the Record to shock ! I buy all my tools in the UK and get them sent over. Works great, Norway's outside the EU so I get the VAT off at source. The shipping costs are usually no more than the VAT (as long as it's not something very heavy) and there's no import duty on tools. Recently ordered a router cutter from Wealden and they sent it in an envelope for £1.50 and the cutter was ex-vat price. Arrived 2 days later. Have previously ordered stuff from both Axi and MTMC and been very pleased. Rutlands charge ridiculous postage costs based on size rather than weight, but I'll check with them if I go for the Camvac.
I'm located in Oslo - no ferry from here.

RogerS - I found this site http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/Order_Page.htm. Have you any suggestions as I'm really completely blank when it comes to cyclones ?

 

[RogerS]

I got the mini cv06 and power it with an Earlex vacuum.

 

[Krysstel]

Thought I'd take up this old thread again since I am about to place an order. After considering various alternatives I've ended up with the wall mounted Camvac 286
I'll be using it for :-
- a 10" t/s
- a router table
- a mitre saw
- a small p/t
- + an outlet for hand held power tools.

The p/t and mitre saw will be furthest away from the vac. With careful location of blastgates I should be able to achieve a pipe run to the p/t of max 10meters with one 90 deg bend.
I have a headroom issue in my cellar workshop and using 4" pipe & fittings is going to be a problem.
Does anyone have experience of using a plumbed-in 2.5" system ?
This would solve my headroom problem but I'm worried about the p/t being the furthest away from a single motor extractor.
Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[laird]

Don't used a right angle on your 90 degree, use a curve.
Sorry, you probably know this, but just in case :wink:

 

[woodbloke]

I saw the floor standing, double-motored Camvac at Yandles a while back and was hugely impressed, firstly because it's got a much smaller footprint than the double bagged Axminster 2200 which was favourite up to then. The guy at Yandles (Camvac rep) also said that it could be hooked up to the p/t first of all (100mm hose) and then reduced to a 60mm bore for a blastgated system for the rest of the machines. The suck of the twin motor Camvac was fantastic...two motors is the way to go :wink: - Rob

 

[Krysstel]

Thanks for the replies and advice.

Woodbloke - I agree that 2 motors would be ideal, if Camvac made a 2 motor unit that fits in with the setup I'm planning and my budget.
I definately need a wall mounted extractor in my small workshop and the GV286W model has a 150l capacity at a price of £155. The alternatives are all floor standing bin-types. The CGV386-2 for instance has a 90l capacity but costs £349. The alternative Record DX5000 is a similar price, although it is a wall mounted unit.
It's possible I could, maybe, locate the extractor at the p/t end and make the p/t the first machine sucked, and maybe I could rig up this bit as 4" with 2.5" for the rest. I'll have a rethink. But with my space limitations and budget I think wall mounted and single motored it has to be.

Laird - Yes I had thought of this. Will use 2x45 deg bends plus a short straight instead of 1x90 deg.

 

[RogerS]

I saw the floor standing, double-motored Camvac at Yandles a while back and was hugely impressed, firstly because it's got a much smaller footprint than the double bagged Axminster 2200 which was favourite up to then. The guy at Yandles (Camvac rep) also said that it could be hooked up to the p/t first of all (100mm hose) and then reduced to a 60mm bore for a blastgated system for the rest of the machines. The suck of the twin motor Camvac was fantastic...two motors is the way to go :wink: - Rob

I've got a rebadged twin motor 386 and it sucks ...well, actually it doesn't, especially when it comes to my spindle moulder. It's Ok for small stuff but for something chunky like the SM, recommendations from the pro's over on the other forum is the AX2200.

EDIT: Krystel...you might want to consider inserting a small dropbox in the pipe from your p/t. Pipe in from the p/t and then pipe out to the extractor. The idea behind it is that the airflow sucks the larger stuff out of the p/t and it drops into the box rather than the extractor struggle to drag them all the way along the pipe. I've been pondering this approach myself.

 

[Krysstel]

I think with (yet another) workshop rearrangement I can locate the p/t (actually I don't have it yet but sizewise I beleive it's similar to the 10" Fox) right under/adjacent the extractor and if I then go for the 4" version of the Camvac single motor 286 wall-mounted, perhaps this will suffice. I could then also run 4" as far as the t/s (surely better than 2.5"?) and 2.5" after that, where I have headroom problems, to the router table and about 6 meters later to the mitre saw and pillar drill at the end.
What do you think ?

 

[woodbloke]

The CGV386-2 for instance has a 90l capacity but costs £349. The alternative Record DX5000 is a similar price, although it is a wall mounted unit.
It's possible I could, maybe, locate the extractor at the p/t end and make the p/t the first machine sucked, and maybe I could rig up this bit as 4" with 2.5" for the rest. I'll have a rethink. But with my space limitations and budget I think wall mounted and single motored it has to be.

Harbo I believe had one of these single motor units and got rid of it a while back 'cos it simply wasn't powerful enough for an extraction system. The main thing is to site it close to the machine producing the biggest amount of waste which will be the p/t so that it sucks off that first of all.

Rog - I'm not an expert on this sort of thing by any means, but the Camvac I saw at Yandles was the genuine article (not re-badgered :wink: ) and had plenty of suck...more than enough for my requirements. One of the redeeming features I liked is the small footprint so it could be tucked under a bench somewhere out of the way. The AX2200 works on a different principal and is a much bigger machine which is great if you've got the space to fit it in.
The motor power on each machine though is the same...2.2Kw - Rob

 

[RogerS]

Rob..when you say the Camvac operates on a different principle to the Axminster can you explain a bit more?

Looking at the spec between the two, both units are rated at 2.2kW. The airflow of the Camvac twin is stated as 222cu ft/min ...approx 6 cu metre...which works out to 360 cu m per hour.

The Axminster is quoted at 2200 cu m per hour.

I'm no expert either but if the above figures are correct then it's suck that I want!

My machine is definitely a Camvac two motor..will post a picture later.