Charnwood w740 vs Record power 450?

[dvddvd]

is there any reason not to buy the Charnwood w740 instead of the Record sabre 450.

I know the charnwood is a little smaller 16 inch instead of 18 inch. But it has a 3hp motor which is braked and comes with wheel kit and sliding mitre saw fence which the 450 doesnt ? it cheaper too..
are Charnwood any good, also the bandsaw around that price seem to come from the same factory.

bit confused why the Charnwood w740 with 3 hp motor can run on 13amp and the bigger w750 with a 3 hp motor requires 16 amp? is it the larger wheels take more current to get turning?

 

[AndyMc]

is there any reason not to buy the Charnwood w740 instead of the Record sabre 450.

I know the charnwood is a little smaller 16 inch instead of 18 inch. But it has a 3hp motor which is braked and comes with wheel kit and sliding mitre saw fence which the 450 doesnt ? it cheaper too..
are Charnwood any good, also the bandsaw around that price seem to come from the same factory.

bit confused why the Charnwood w740 with 3 hp motor can run on 13amp and the bigger w750 with a 3 hp motor requires 16 amp? is it the larger wheels take more current to get turning?

Interesting. The cutting depth looks a bit lower, at 255mm, so might be an issue if you're thinking of cutting up some logs. The W750 has more capacity for a similar price to the RP S 450.
The minimum blade width is 10mm on the W740, which might be too wide for tight curves. I imagine you could fit something narrower but worth checking that won't knacker your guarantee

 

[Ttrees]

If concerned about whether a 3hp machine might or might not be possible to run from the household plug, then Bob's induction motor write up is surely worth a read.
You'd get smoother starting, and smoother breaking, what's both easily adjustable, if you went the 3 phase with VFD route.

Just saying, as even slightly used is often half the price of new,
and 3 phase stuff is half the cost of single phase kit.

(That's presuming ya don't mind making a metal box for the thing)

 

[AndyMc]

I did contact Drives Direct on an inverter/VFD combo - allow for around £800 for both, £400 for just the VFD if the motor is dual-voltage. I'm waiting for the verdict from my sparks as to whether or not to fit a type C MCB and stay single-phase, or if I'll be forced to go three-phase.

By the way, the micro-adjuster on the W740 rip fence looks interesting - anyone able to offer an opinion if it's a worthwhile addition?

 

[Ttrees]

@AndyMc Sounds like they talked you into a digital phase converter for that money.

A premium VFD brand would be Invertec for instance, likely costing three times the hundred quid ones that I use, under non industrial settings.

 

[Spectric]

are Charnwood any good, also the bandsaw around that price seem to come from the same factory.

Yes they all come out the same far eastern factory just wearing different uniforms and badges so all much the same apart from none have all good points and will need some fettling.

I'm waiting for the verdict from my sparks as to whether or not to fit a type C MCB and stay single-phase, or if I'll be forced to go three-phase.

If the supply impedance cannot take the type C then you will be pushing it for the VFD, you get three phases but all are supplied the power from your single phase.

My BS400 is 16 inches and 1500 Watt motor but so far has done anything I have needed and it is on a 13 amp plug, it is supposed to take a 1 inch blade but I don't think it can really tension the blade enough so stay with 3/4 max.

Do you need the 18 inches ?

 

[dvddvd]

I'm upgrading from a 12 inch Record power bs300...the thing that attracted me to the Sabre 450 was the braked motor

 

[AndyMc]

@AndyMc Sounds like they talked you into a digital phase converter for that money.

A premium VFD brand would be Invertec for instance, likely costing three times the hundred quid ones that I use, under non industrial settings.

Interested to know which VFD you're using though - would you have a link to the same (or similar), please?

Another thought on the Charnwood saws - the manual says 6mm minimum blade width, but the website says 10mm, so maybe that's not a concern after all. There do seem to be a lot of similarities with the SIP machines, even down to some of the photos in the manuals, so maybe there's another option?

 

[dvddvd]

The thing that put me off the Record Power BS400 was the blade guides, they use the flat discs, while the 450 uses the spring loaded bearing type. I got the flat discs on my BS300 and not so keen on them

 

[Ttrees]

Interested to know which VFD you're using though - would you have a link to the same (or similar), please?

Sorry, computer say's no, when it comes to fleabay searches.
I like the one on the left, and would buy again.
I thought it were the more common Huanyang, what's got many parameters (features)
For a bandsaw, none really needed... (caveat)
though important if wanting to de-rate a 4hp motor down to 2 or 3hp,
some without that function. the model needs to be matched to the motor size.

What's not to love about the Huanyang is the fan (look up shut up VFD)
This particular Isacon-Askpower's fan only runs when needed.
I will mention it's got the same model HY02D223B, but that might not mean anything, some of these might also be the micro sized VFD's which could fit in the palm yer hand.
One needs to see the dimensions of the unit in the description, to be sure they don't get ripped off by shrewd businessmen.
These ones might not be fully encased like the ones I've got.

Worth noting, you would likely be better off getting a digital phase converter if you've got lots of equipment planned, as it's the case of one VFD per machine, and no plugs in-between.

Also worth noting some machines like Planer thicknessers have two motors,
and the feed motor might be strange or unsuitable for a Joe Soap, (who's read Bob's write up)
to get going.
Not seen any sort of tute regarding that, but believe Bob has sorted this for others before,
I guess it ain't so simple.

Have a read of the write up, as youtube has some dodgy stuff,
like someone touching the output terminals only after unplugging,!!!! (that one time deal might need doing, and swap any two of the three wires over, should the motor spins backwards)
These store lethal power in the huge capacitors, and one must wait a period of time for them to self discharge before doing such.

I could go on, but there's threads about that in the archives.

All the best

Tom

 

[Spectric]

Worth noting, you would likely be better off getting a digital phase converter if you've got lots of equipment planned, as it's the case of one VFD per machine, and no plugs in-between.

That is the next best thing to actually having a three phase supply although you don't get the variable speed and although you can run larger motors than with an invertor you still do not get the full power you get from a three phase supply, ie 100 amps domestic per phase upwards for industrial.

A digital phase convertor is better than a VFD in that it delivers a three phase supply within your workshop and you can just plug in your machines and cheap VFD's should be avoided because just because they work does not mean they are safe under fault conditions. When it comes to VFD's then ABB, Hitachi and Mitsubishi are all good brands, for large applications ABB as having used ABB to deliver variable flow on 75Kw pumps with no issues. https://www.drives-online.com/shop/acs580-01-145a-4/

If you have seen the code used in these devices and what the processors deliver you would appreciate why some are cheap and others more expensive, take a look at the dsPIC33CK family of microcontrollers and these run at 100 mips and provide all sorts of complex features to respond to faults and maintain a stable output with a PWM resolution of 1 nano second.

 

[Nick.]

I'm upgrading from a 12 inch Record power bs300...the thing that attracted me to the Sabre 450 was the braked motor

Hi dvddvd, just for info, every bandsaw sold in Europe is subject to Annex iv regs & has to stop within 10 seconds to comply with CE and UKCA. Pretty sure all larger saws have braked motors unless they can prove friction does the job.

 

[likeakite]

I have the Charnwood W730. If the W740 is the same quality go with the Record Power bandsaw. I went to Yandles a couple of weeks ago as I'm looking to sell my Charnwood in a few months and I'm either going to buy the 14" Sabre 350 premium or the Laguna 14/12 as they're a totally different animal.

 

[AndyMc]

Sorry, computer say's no, when it comes to fleabay searches.
I like the one on the left, and would buy again.
I thought it were the more common Huanyang, what's got many parameters (features)
For a bandsaw, none really needed... (caveat)
though important if wanting to de-rate a 4hp motor down to 2 or 3hp,
some without that function. the model needs to be matched to the motor size.

What's not to love about the Huanyang is the fan (look up shut up VFD)
This particular Isacon-Askpower's fan only runs when needed.
I will mention it's got the same model HY02D223B, but that might not mean anything, some of these might also be the micro sized VFD's which could fit in the palm yer hand.
One needs to see the dimensions of the unit in the description, to be sure they don't get ripped off by shrewd businessmen.
These ones might not be fully encased like the ones I've got.

Worth noting, you would likely be better off getting a digital phase converter if you've got lots of equipment planned, as it's the case of one VFD per machine, and no plugs in-between.

Also worth noting some machines like Planer thicknessers have two motors,
and the feed motor might be strange or unsuitable for a Joe Soap, (who's read Bob's write up)
to get going.
Not seen any sort of tute regarding that, but believe Bob has sorted this for others before,
I guess it ain't so simple.

Have a read of the write up, as youtube has some dodgy stuff,
like someone touching the output terminals only after unplugging,!!!! (that one time deal might need doing, and swap any two of the three wires over, should the motor spins backwards)
These store lethal power in the huge capacitors, and one must wait a period of time for them to self discharge before doing such.

I could go on, but there's threads about that in the archives.

All the best

Tom

Thanks Tom. As a 100% Joe Soap I have a low level of confidence I wouldn't end up doing something stupid/dangerous with 3-phase so I'm inclined to play it safe where possible. The background info is very helpful though

 

[dvddvd]

hi I did see on the Record Power site it said that the Sabre 450 was not for sale in the UK only in the EU, which was q bit confusing?

 

[AndyMc]

There's several UK stockists so I'm not sure that's quite right. Yandles have a note on their site to say they won't ship to the EU but I can't see anything on the RP site that would suggest the 450's not available in the UK.

 

[dvddvd]

 

[dvddvd]

says it then gives you a list of UK stockists

 

[AndyMc]

Maybe just the 3-phase model?

 

[Ttrees]

Thanks Tom. As a 100% Joe Soap I have a low level of confidence I wouldn't end up doing something stupid/dangerous with 3-phase so I'm inclined to play it safe where possible. The background info is very helpful though

Doesn't make so much sense in your case, unless you had a need.
VFD's are worth mentioning though, but more suited for those without the option of having an electrician come round to install a new CU, and/or a digital phase converter.

Along with being a Joe Soap regarding elecktrickery myself, I have no "consumer" knowledge about those DPC's, (what I'm guessing can be abbreviated?)

I'm sure there's a better term for "consumer knowledge", of what I'd say I'm somewhat fimiliar with regarding the use of VFD's strictly on a basic machine with a single motor, no powerfeeds etc,
Consumer knowledge/call it what ye like, being/i.e...
Hooking one up in a metal box and entering the parameters correctly.
the latter is the important part, as there's only 7 wires involved into the VFD.

That is the difference between an electronic engineer and a sparkie,
they might take as long as the consumer to understand about motors.
Regarding things at its most basic, on the Huanyang for instance, thats around 15 parameters,
(would have to get my parameter sheet to check)

If I needed 10 second stop for my 24" saw, I might look up "dynamic braking"
as the huanyang is ommiting the bits to do that, there's a YT video on that,
involving an external braking resistor.
I don't like to strain the inbuilt braking capacity of mine, and gradually went from whatever amount of seconds, say 15, to arrive where I was happy with the machine stopping.
Note too fast seems like bad news for the blade, should you fit a VFD,
as what is seemingly the case for the bandsaw version of the "Sawstop" machine.

That should be enough rambling about that.

All the best
Tom