Chainsaw oil

[Austinisgreat]

I moved over to the Aspen / Stihl synthetic 2 stroke mix a couple of years ago. As others have said it is eye-wateringly expensive, but machines start and run better (I have Makita, Stihl, and Echo machines as well as a cheapy Screwfix/Titan unit), and all work well with the synthetic fuel. And it doesn't go off. And you don't get the horrible blue clouds of smoke and pollution.

Recommended.

Oh and cheapo chain oil, from local farm machinery supplier.

Andrew

 

[blackrodd]

I always struggle with this. I have a bunch of Stihl tools (chainsaws, pruner, blower, hedge trimmers, streamer) but I only use them at home in etc garden and paddocks. So it is not continuos use and it can be a few weeks between each use of, say, the chainsaw. I find that any fuel mix I make up goes off really quickly and the Stihl user guides say do not keep fuel mix for longer than 30 days. Once it is a bit old, or if I leave fuel in the tank, the tool is often hard to start.

Now I use a 1 litre Stihl mixer bottle that has a 50:1 measure tank at the top and as far as possible run the tool dry on each use. This is pretty easy to use to get the mix spot on and I find the small engines very sensitive to being over oiled. I don't use enough chain saw oil to worry about the cost of that, so I just buy 5 litre bottles of chainsaw oil from the garden machinery supplier. Chainsaw seems to go through chain oil at about the same rate as fuel (i.e. when fuel tank is empty, chain oil tank needs filling as well). I tried biodegradable oil in my last saw and it was awful for low temperature winter use: went claggy.

I have wondered about the pre-mixed long life fuels. My local place only sells the Stihl pre-mix as far as I know, and it is incredibly expensive: at least 5 times the cost of buying my own fuel and oil and mixing it. Is it really much better? My main issue is I want the tools to start easily. I am a bit of an ignoramus in this area.

My mate repairs and sells Stihl products, and he says you must use the following sequence to start a stihl engine.
Press the fuel bulb (if fitted) until it is full, then choke on and ignition switched on.
Pull the starter cord until it fires, (usually the 3rd pull, I find) return the choke to OFF, then pull the starter cord again,
motor starts and "blip" the throttle and warm the engine, any other starter method will flood the engine.
I've got a stihl chainsaw, blower, strimmer and hedge trimmer, all start easily by the above method.
Cheap chainsaw oil is ok but the genuine stuff is best and does, he tells me, help prevent guide bar, chain, and bore wear.
After all why buy the better quality machinery and try and save running costs, It's a better machine and will last ages
The professionals and arborists that come to him all use the recommended oils, etc so it must mean something.
Regards Rodders

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I think the design brief for all saws is to have the oil tank of just sufficient size to outlast the fuel supply so under normal circumstances the bar never runs dry. That start up sounds correct for a Stihl - exactly how mine starts.

 

[blackrodd]

I think the design brief for all saws is to have the oil tank of just sufficient size to outlast the fuel supply so under normal circumstances the bar never runs dry. That start up sounds correct for a Stihl - exactly how mine starts.

This is another reason against using any or old runny oil for the chain, the oil pump is adjustable, but only by a small amount, and as you say the fuel is supposed to expire before the chain saw oil tank.
As mentioned, you could run dry or empty the fuel tank, Or buy some motorcycle octane booster, or even buy the best high octane petrol from the garage at 2, or 3 litres a time.
Luckily, none of my garden stuff refuses to start, even my Haytor, after overwintering will start after a few pulls.
Which is just as well as 'Er indoors loves mowing the lawn, I shudder to think of the consequences of the mower
failing to start!
Regards Rodders

 

[Phil Pascoe]

My mother some years ago had a large lawn that had been seeded with meadow grass - in wet and warm W. Cornwall. :? It took three hours to mow, so from the end of February to October we mowed it for an hour a day. If we left it a week we had to hire a commercial mower.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

I must say I've never experienced problems starting my Stihl chainsaw, in fact that is one of the most brilliant features of it. I've always just used a home made petroil mix with regular unleaded and regular 2 stroke. What I don't do is use last years fuel but one 5L can will last as long as the season without going off. Its certainly not just a few weeks before its gone off and causes problems. If I leave it over winter then it does misbehave so it sounds like starting Stihl products as long as the petrol is fresh is a none fuel related cause.

I did have a cheap McCulloch chainsaw for many years and that was a pig to start, especially after winter. I would frequently have to resort to taking the plug out and manually heating it with a blow lamp before reinserting and then it starting. But not so with the Stihl....massive improvement but I also observe the careful starting instructions every time.

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks all. The chainsaw has the Stihl easy start mechanism which is a sort of half pull affair. The saw starts first time on two or three pulls as long as I use it regularly. If I don't use it for a couple of months it is temperamental and I end up dumping any fuel in the tank, taking the plug out, cleaning everything , fill with fresh fuel and then it will usually go. Indeed a bought an electric back up saw for just this reason as one day when I was cutting up a lot of logs, I just could not get hot to run consistently. Oddly the pruning machine (which has trimmer and blower attachments) has a motor that starts much more easily. All tools were bought new last summer. Hedge trimmer has not been used yet this season (as it is still winter!) so I am not sure how that will be.

I probably get through about 20 litres or more of fuel in a season with these garden tools, as we have a lot of tree trimming to do and a hell of a lot of hedges so really I should not have a problem. The 16" Stihl chainsaw drinks fuel like it is going out of fashion!

 

[Wuffles]

Thanks all. The chainsaw has the Stihl easy start mechanism which is a sort of half pull affair. The saw starts first time on two or three pulls as long as I use it regularly. If I don't use it for a couple of months it is temperamental and I end up dumping any fuel in the tank, taking the plug out, cleaning everything , fill with fresh fuel and then it will usually go. Indeed a bought an electric back up saw for just this reason as one day when I was cutting up a lot of logs, I just could not get hot to run consistently. Oddly the pruning machine (which has trimmer and blower attachments) has a motor that starts much more easily. All tools were bought new last summer. Hedge trimmer has not been used yet this season (as it is still winter!) so I am not sure how that will be.

I probably get through about 20 litres or more of fuel in a season with these garden tools, as we have a lot of tree trimming to do and a hell of a lot of hedges so really I should not have a problem. The 16" Stihl chainsaw drinks fuel like it is going out of fashion!

Easy start is brilliant and a pain in one handy parcel. I can flood my easy start Stihl much easier than the others, however, if I'm starting it up a tree, easy start when it's warm for me every time.

 

[duncanh]

So whats this Aspen fuel then? Some kind of additive that prevents it going off or some such?

I think the Aspen which is currently in my small Stihl was bought at least 2 years ago and it worked fine last time I tried it and it often has fuel left in it for months at a time without a problem. This is the second can I've had and I've never had a problem with it. Most of the time these days I tend to use an electric chainsaw in the garden (mainly because it's quieter) so I haven't needed my petrol one.

Also supposedly better for your health (although I still wouldn't drink it!). The smell is certainly more pleasant the petrol saws we run at work. Useful in hedge trimmers where the exhaust is more likely to be around head height.

 

[chipmunk]

+1 for Aspen fuel.
I never have to mix any or chuck any fuel away. And my chainsaw, blower and strimmer all start first time, everytime and more importantly run smoothly.

...but as Paulm says it's pricey though but then convenience usually is.

HTH
Jon

 

[blackrodd]

Thanks all. The chainsaw has the Stihl easy start mechanism which is a sort of half pull affair. The saw starts first time on two or three pulls as long as I use it regularly. If I don't use it for a couple of months it is temperamental and I end up dumping any fuel in the tank, taking the plug out, cleaning everything , fill with fresh fuel and then it will usually go. Indeed a bought an electric back up saw for just this reason as one day when I was cutting up a lot of logs, I just could not get hot to run consistently. Oddly the pruning machine (which has trimmer and blower attachments) has a motor that starts much more easily. All tools were bought new last summer. Hedge trimmer has not been used yet this season (as it is still winter!) so I am not sure how that will be.

I probably get through about 20 litres or more of fuel in a season with these garden tools, as we have a lot of tree trimming to do and a hell of a lot of hedges so really I should not have a problem. The 16" Stihl chainsaw drinks fuel like it is going out of fashion!

The ERGO start system is really good, as my mate says a child could start the saw with an ERGO system.
It's just pulling with no effort involved, really good when you're close to having had enough for the day!
Rodders

 

[dickm]

Blimey - that question set off a real chain . Just to clarify a bit, the biodegradeable oil certainly wasn't cheap - even at (from memory) 75% off it was still slightly more than I pay for the bulk chain oil from our local garage. But it seemed like a good idea, avoiding spraying mineral oil about and obligatory in certain sensitive situations as someone else has noted. Will probably use it up, but with care; maybe alternate with conventional oil.
Interesting discussion about starting problems - certainly seem to have become more common recently. No idea why, but my old Dolmar saw doesn't seem to care how long the fuel has been sitting around but the big Stihl and little Frontier both get very awkward with anything at all aged.

 

[blackrodd]

Dolmar and Echo, now you're talking!
My Dolmar chainsaw and echo strimmer are still going today, as you say they were reliable and no real problems in use.
Apparently the Ethanol leaves a coating or "varnish" residue in the carburetors which ends up as a blockage,
It's so common, My mate has bought one of these "Sonic" carb cleaners for his works, it's switched on a lot of the time i'm there, and full.
I wonder if there'll be a Stihl emmissions scandal some time soon.
Rodders

 

[Selsdon_PJS]

+1 for Aspen and ergo start on my Stihl chainsaw. A 5 litre container of a Aspen makes it slightly easier on the pocket but well worth it for the saw, strimmer and leaf blower.

 

[Woodmonkey]

We always used the bio stuff when I used to be a tree surgeon, never had a problem with it. Tut tut to those using engine oil, that's not very environmentally friendly, that oil is just being flung straight off the end of the bar

 

[yetloh]

I know nothing about chainsaws but is there, or should there be, a distinction here between chain oil i.e used just to lube the chain and two stroke oil for the engine?

Jim

 

[chipmunk]

The short answer is yes, they are two completely different oils.

Chain and bar oil is very different from 2-stroke oil - C&B oil needs to be pretty sticky to hang around long enough to lubricate the chain and the sprockets in the bar when cutting before it ultimately gets flung off.

2-stroke oil needs to lubricate the cylinder/crank-shaft etc but then gets burnt with the fuel in the cylinder. It needs to do this without leaving too much crud behind and creating too many nasties.

HTH
Jon

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I used to use bar oil on my motorbike chains. Brilliant for staying where it was put.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I know nothing about chainsaws but is there, or should there be, a distinction here between chain oil i.e used just to lube the chain and two stroke oil for the engine?

Jim

Chainsaw oil tends to refer to chainsaw bar oil - the two stroke oil isn't specific to chainsaws, bar oil is.

 

[yetloh]

That's exactly what I thought. I think my confusion was caused by some rather loose terminology earlier in the thread. Many years ago I bought a bottle of chain oil on the recommendation of the late lamented Jim Kingshott, which he said was infinitely better for keeping rust off tools than the usually suggested Camellia oil. Having used both, he was dead right, it really does stick around and for that reason is especially useful for tools that aren't used very often.

Jim