Cascamite - In case I might.....

[jimi43]

.....be missing something!

All this talk of Dominos and biscuit jointer, Titebond...etc. has brought up a long running argument between me and an old guy in the village regarding new and traditional wood practice.

If I don't use beautifully flat wood glued with the boiled skin of a European Hare....or some other concoction then he just ignores the conversation.

NOW...whilst I am probably partly in his camp and partly in the new technology club....I thought I would seek opinion from the experts here as to your views.

His greatest "swear by" stuff is this:

He does qualify that statement by saying that it is ONLY for new wood...sticking (pun intended) to hide glues for repairs and restorations...

Looking it up I see the first "Googled" reference is this:

Cascamite is a waterproof glue and is probably the must effective glue of all. It is a white powder and is resin based and should be mixed in a glass or plastic container, two parts water to one part cascamite. It must be stirred thoroughly until it becomes a smooth/creamy paste. Cascamite is a quality glue and is suitable for all furniture especially if used outside as it resists rain water.

SO....IN CASE HE MIGHT...be right...what is your experience of this stuff..?

I simply can't get it right...for now I am staying with Titebond.

Jim

 

[woodbloke]

Cascamite is a good glue and is waterproof (though not suitable for continuous immersion in water) It should be mixed to a smooth runny paste (most users mix it far too thick...it should drip off the end of the mixing stick)
The big disadvantage(s) is that it has a limited shelf life and you have to use what's mixed. It also sets glass hard which is useful in some applications (laminating) but not in others (chair work)
I used to use it all the time, but now stick to glue in a bottle which for most uses in the 'shop is the equal of a urea formaldehyde glue with none of it's disadvantages.
Cascamite will also rip the edge of a plane if you try and clean it up when it's set :evil: Stick to TBIII :wink: and tell your pal to move into the 21st cent - Rob

 

[squib]

I used it alot when i was building boats (only for fitting out)but it became obsolete in our shop when epoxy resins appeared,a shame really because it is so easy to mix and can be cleaned up with a wet rag.I found it a little brittle but an excellent glue.

 

[MikeG.]

If you ever want something to stick so tight that it will never, ever come apart, and/ or you want the joint to be waterproof, this is your stuff. I used it for a series of end-grain breadboards last Christmas. It is many, many times stronger than Titebond.

I made up a cross of scraps of timber, glued face to face with cascamite (or the new named stuff.........same thing). The following day I put it in the vice and tried to break it apart. Eventually, when I employed a lump hammer, I managed to seperate it into two pieces..........but it ripped the face off the wood rather than break at the glue line. It is amazingly strong.

Mike

 

[woodbloke]

If you ever want something to stick so tight that it will never, ever come apart, and/ or you want the joint to be waterproof, this is your stuff. I used it for a series of end-grain breadboards last Christmas. It is many, many times stronger than Titebond.

I made up a cross of scraps of timber, glued face to face with cascamite (or the new named stuff.........same thing). The following day I put it in the vice and tried to break it apart. Eventually, when I employed a lump hammer, I managed to seperate it into two pieces..........but it ripped the face off the wood rather than break at the glue line. It is amazingly strong.

Mike

I'm not sure about this Mike. Without some test data to back up that statement I'm doubtful. I've had the same experience gluing wood together with PVA...the wood will break rather than the glue line and I had to belt it with a hammer.
Remember an original 70's ad for Evostick where a Morris 1100 motor was suspended from a crane and held to the jib with PVA? - Rob

 

[eg]

In addition to what was said; the opening time of cascamite is way longer than that of TB & the like. So, in cases of a very long and complicated glue-up, cascamite has an advantage.

Eyal

 

[woodbloke]

In addition to what was said; the opening time of cascamite is way longer than that of TB & the like. So, in cases of a very long and complicated glue-up, cascamite has an advantage.

Eyal

Forgot that one, you're quite right - Rob

 

[Ironballs]

Was there not a glue review (oh the excitement!) in F&C and a Yank mag in the last couple of years, covered pretty much all types from what I recall

 

[head clansman]

hi

when i was a young apprentice at college on block release training in those day s, we did experiments on all glues available at that time just glued two pieces of off cuts together and then placed them outside for one yr , the only one still glued yep you guessed it cascamite , rock hard , it fact the wood had split but not on the joint , it is expensive and you must get the mix right in thickness and amount or you could waste quite a lot .hc

 

[9fingers]

When I were a lad (quite a few years) :lol: my father used to use cascamite. I came in a blue and red tin which used to have a picture of two horses trying to put a joint apart.
I certainly don't remember anything he made coming apart and I still have one or two of them.

Bob

 

[Alf]

The question that occurs to me is do you need the strength of cascamite if the wood would fail first anyway with a lesser strength of adhesive? I don't have a particularly wide experience of adhesives, so I merely throw that into the (glue) pot for consideration and comment.

Cheers, Alf

 

[Paul Chapman]

Because wood never stops moving, the flexibility of a PVA adhesive can, IMHO, be an advantage over the brittleness of Cascamite. However, in some situations, such as curved, laminated forms, where any sort of creep would be a problem, Cascamite would be a good choice. No single glue is ideal in all situations.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[ProShop]

Cascamite or Polymite or any of the other name changes it's gone through these past few years , is an excellent genuine gap filler, unlike most other glues which have poor/or no gap filling properties.

All glues have their pros & cons, There is definitely still a place for Cascamite in the modern world.

 

[yetloh]

Paul is dead right - there is no best glue for everything. I use urea formaldehyde (UF) glue - aka Cascamite - a lot. It is not a lot of trouble to mix and once you get used to it, there is not much wastage. It will stick to itself, unlike PVA, and I have never found its rigidity to be a problem although I accept that flexibility can occasionally have advantages. UF glues are for me the glue of choice for a gappy joint (not that I have many) and infinitely superior to polyurethane glues (which fill gaps with inherently weak foam) for this. They can also be cleaned up with water unlike PU or epoxy.

But it is the open time which is for me the real major advantage of UF. Staged glue ups are often recommended but tiny errors in squareness can be cumulative and cause real problems on final assembly. Much better, in my opinion, to do it all in one go with a long open time glue. that way, small problems in squareness can be compensated and corrected with judicious angling of clamps.

While I am wittering on about UF, Cascamite has not been made for some years. Polymite is available from Axminster but I use Resinmite from AG Woodcare. It is the same stuff but notably cheaper and they do a 750mag tub which is a really useful size. Good people to deal with too.

May I also put in a word for hide glue. It's reversibility is a real advantage. How many of us have not taken a drawer or other frame out of the clamps only to find it is not quite square? With hide glue it is simplicity itself to fix - heat with a hot air gun and reclamp. Try that with Titebond.

I do use pave but not a great deal but would certainly not criticise those who do. It is all about recognising the properties of different glues and doing what suits you and your style of working best.

Jim

 

[MikeG.]

I do use pave but not a great deal
Jim

Is this a typo? Did you mean PVA?

I completely agree with everything you say about glues. A long open time can be a huge advantage in furniture making. What would be brilliant would be an indefinate open time, followed by instant curing on demand........a bit like the stuff dentists use.

Mike

 

[yetloh]

Yes Mike, I did mean PVA - too quick on the spell check!

Jim

 

[woodbloke]

I haven't used a urea formaldehyde glue for years now, but I do recollect that the 'open time' was a distinct advantage. I stopped using it simply 'cos when it was left in the tin as a powder it just went 'off' probably because I was storing it poorly.
Question is then, if I were to get another tub of the stuff, what's the best way to store it and where?..outside in a cool shop doesn't seem to be the best place to me - Rob

 

[JohnBrown]

My father often used Cascomite, and I also remember the horses on the log - similar to the Levi jeans logo, but ultimately, I suppose, based on the Magdeburg hemispheres story. My father always told me that it was made from casein resin, which was effectively skimmed milk. He used to say that Mosquito planes were made of plywood and skimmed milk.

 

[woodbloke]

He used to say that Mosquito planes were made of plywood and skimmed milk.

I think this is when these synthetic resin glues were first developed...WWII aircraft industry - Rob

 

[Jake]

A long open time can be a huge advantage in furniture making. What would be brilliant would be an indefinate open time, followed by instant curing on demand........a bit like the stuff dentists use.

There are RF cure glues - a bit industrial.