Career or job

[D_W]

A career is long term, offers avenues up and requires fertilization and feeding to improve. A job is a broader term.

I think it's a mistake to believe that a career will always be something that you love and just enjoy doing all the time. It may be that sometimes, but the reality that it needs to make money to support your pay and others' pay means that your enjoyment generally takes a back seat to making sure that you're meeting other goals first.

I worked in a furniture factory in college. Assembly line. Mind numbing. I'm an applied mathematician now. There were definitely people who enjoyed the assembly line work more than I enjoy work that I'd consider far more interesting and fulfilling. I have clients, time to bill, budgets to hit (where agreements aren't time related) and no matter how much I like the subject matter, there is always at least half a dozen people who want me to do the work faster so that the budgets look better. It doesn't matter if they're met - if you can do better than meeting them, then do that. If you manage that, then do 10% faster.

Quite often, clients want something done, but they only want to pay for half a job. If professional standards allow, that's what I have to do. It's not particularly enjoyable to do something like that and just caveat areas that you didn't look at (that might have dire consequences if not examined further).

 

[Andy Kev.]

I think I'd go along with RogerS's distinction between career and job.

Neither path is a guarantee of contentment in your working life. My first career was the Army, 22 years of it and it was mostly very fulfilling except where I found myself in circumstances where bureaucrats and pen pushers were deciding what was to be done (or not).

I'm now on a second career as an English teacher. The bureaucracy is even worse but thankfully more limited in its scope (a teacher enjoys serious autonomy when in the classroom).

The ideal career? I wouldn't like to say. I would love to be properly trained up to high levels of expertise as a woodworker but I could never make a living from it and be content because I love working with hand tools which I presume means being far too slow to be commercially viable unless, I suppose you can earn dosh being an internet guru. I could be drawn to being a historian but I tend to have little respect for academics, having done university and later done an MA.

In any event, as has been pointed out, there are more important things. It seems to me that any whingeing I do is from a position of relative luxury and I bet that applies to an awful lot of people who do an awful lot of whingeing. Therefore I do know that I have few grounds for complaint (touch wood) and should count my blessings.

 

[Andy Kev.]

I'm an applied mathematician now.

Just be glad you don't live near me!

I'm currently trying to bash my way through a book on cosmology and galaxies and the maths is a right b*gger, so I'd be knocking on your door all the time, saying, "Ey up mate. Have you got a minute to explain to me what this means?"

You'd soon lose your interest in maths or you'd get very good at pretending not to be at home. :mrgreen:

 

[Rich C]

In any event, as has been pointed out, there are more important things. It seems to me that any whingeing I do is from a position of relative luxury and I bet that applies to an awful lot of people who do an awful lot of whingeing. Therefore I do know that I have few grounds for complaint (touch wood) and should count my blessings.

It's always the way, those with the least to complain about are the loudest.

 

[novocaine]

I work for a living.
I sit in front of a computer for 3 days a week and in front of various groups of people for the rest. I learn something new every single day and I carry that knowledge with me along the way, passing to others when I can and reserving it for the day it will be needed. I'm not a technician nor am I a teacher, I no longer work with my hands but with my brain and I'm respected for the work I do and the approach I take to do it.

thats seems like enough for me.

do I love my job, no, but I don't hate it and I'm almost certain that I'll look back at it when it's done and say I had fun.
I guess it's a career. I've worked from the bottom to the middle and a bit.

 

[MikeG.]

Working class - job
middle class - career
upper class - hobby horse.....

Nonsense, of course. This is just prejudice. In the western world it's only the Brits who make such a thing of class. Goodness knows why this stupid idea perpetuates and survives.

 

[Geoff_S]

Working class - job
middle class - career
upper class - hobby horse


I've had multiple jobs

When I started back in 1974, I had a career in IT and computer programming with promotion prospects, ie more money.

At the same time I also had a job working 5/6 sessions as a barman to help pay the mortgage.

So during the day I was "Good day my man, how are you?" and in the evening "Cor blimey guv'nor, what's yer poison?".

Now I am just old. :lol:

 

[will1983]

This is a good thread! It's very interesting to hear everyone else' experiences and opinions at a point in my own life when my employment circumstances are undergoing a major change!

Bit of history
I started in the world of Tier 1 Civil Engineering as an apprentice in 2002, now 17 years later, a fully qualified, professionally accredited Civil Engineer I am giving it all up to run my own joinery company. Some may think I am mad and have even told me so but I have decided that having a "career" in CE just isn't right for me any more.

My reasoning
Back in 2002, I loved it. I was outside every day, building some amazing high profile projects and working with really positive "can-do" people. Most days were spent solving problems and working as part of a good team. These positives were coupled with knowing that when I am dead and buried things I built will remain for many years after.

Unfortunately in the past 17 years things have changed (or maybe I've just started to notice them), bureaucracy, politics, corporate bullsh*t phrases and one-up-manship seems to have taken the place of good engineering knowledge, sound reasoning and teamwork. It is this that has changed my outlook from one of a career to that of a job.

The Plan
Now I am looking to the future and my new "career". My goal is to become a "professional" cabinet maker and business owner. To apply the knowledge and skills acquired in the previous life to my new chosen path. Ironically running CCW is more like the engineering I enjoyed than the engineering I did in CE.

Credit where it is certainly due
I am very lucky, I have an amazing partner who supports me. She always has emotionally but through a number of well deserved promotions in her own career in the past few years can now partially support financially.
Without her confidence in me and the understanding that hard work and long hours are needed for success I wouldn't have had the guts to go through with this. I would still be sat in a "career" that I hated and spent most of the day calculating how many hours and minutes it was until I could leave.

 

[doctor Bob]

This is a good thread! It's very interesting to hear everyone else' experiences and opinions at a point in my own life when my employment circumstances are undergoing a major change!

Bit of history
I started in the world of Tier 1 Civil Engineering as an apprentice in 2002, now 17 years later, a fully qualified, professionally accredited Civil Engineer I am giving it all up to run my own joinery company. Some may think I am mad and have even told me so but I have decided that having a "career" in CE just isn't right for me any more.

My reasoning
Back in 2002, I loved it. I was outside every day, building some amazing high profile projects and working with really positive "can-do" people. Most days were spent solving problems and working as part of a good team. These positives were coupled with knowing that when I am dead and buried things I built will remain for many years after.

Unfortunately in the past 17 years things have changed (or maybe I've just started to notice them), bureaucracy, politics, corporate bullsh*t phrases and one-up-manship seems to have taken the place of good engineering knowledge, sound reasoning and teamwork. It is this that has changed my outlook from one of a career to that of a job.

The Plan
Now I am looking to the future and my new "career". My goal is to become a "professional" cabinet maker and business owner. To apply the knowledge and skills acquired in the previous life to my new chosen path. Ironically running CCW is more like the engineering I enjoyed than the engineering I did in CE.

Credit where it is certainly due
I am very lucky, I have an amazing partner who supports me. She always has emotionally but through a number of well deserved promotions in her own career in the past few years can now partially support financially.
Without her confidence in me and the understanding that hard work and long hours are needed for success I wouldn't have had the guts to go through with this. I would still be sat in a "career" that I hated and spent most of the day calculating how many hours and minutes it was until I could leave.

Sounds interesting, I hope it goes well. I set up in 2004 and never looked back, however I had quite a few years working for a high end company before setting up, which for me was a great learning curve, quality at speed.
If I can help in anyway feel free to PM.

Career or Job? Had a career, set for life, messed it up............ now I have a lifestyle really, doesn't feel like a job.

 

[Trainee neophyte]

I'm an applied mathematician now.

Just be glad you don't live near me!

I'm currently trying to bash my way through a book on cosmology and galaxies and the maths is a right b*gger, so I'd be knocking on your door all the time, saying, "Ey up mate. Have you got a minute to explain to me what this means?"

You'd soon lose your interest in maths or you'd get very good at pretending not to be at home. :mrgreen:

I'm a big fan of dark matter: 85% of the universe is missing, and this must be true because ever-so-very clever people say it is true. When I get my answer wrong by 85%, I tend to try again: when cosmologists get it wrong, they assume the universe is being sneaky. How's that for a career?

 

[Phil Pascoe]

How I've always envied kids who know what they want to do. When anyone asks if I would have done differently if I lived my life over again, I say probably not ............. because I had no more idea what I wanted to do when I was sixty than than I did when I was ten. I have cousins who are multi millionaires, and I wouldn't want their lives - I couldn't face spending half my waking hours dealing with crooks of one sort or another and ignorant prats. I can pick my friends - they can't.

 

[Trevanion]

I had no more idea what I wanted to do when I was sixty than than I did when I was ten..

I know someone who didn't know what they were going to do once they left school, got pushed along by exterior forces who had very high expectations and graduated in biochemistry from Oxford, he now lays bricks for a living and doesn't remember half of what he learned in Oxford. Far happier and better off long-term comparatively he reckons.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I knew three brothers at school. Their father was a head research chemist at a nerve gas establishment. The oldest got eleven grade I "O" levels, four "A"s at A level (c 1970) and a first class degree in pure maths. He left university and got a job making candles. My friend, the second brother got kicked out of school for a minor drug offence (after messing up his "O"levels - he only got seven "1"s and three "2"s ), and went to a sixth form college to do A levels. I met him and he told me he wasn't sure what he wanted to be, an architect, a technical illustrator or a surgeon. He is probably the most brilliant person I've ever met and is now a consultant surgeon. The third brother was thought to be the most brilliant of the family. He gave up working at anything academic when he was about fifteen and last I saw him was quite happy as a motor mechanic.

 

[Bm101]

This is turning out to be a great thread. Brilliant in fact. Remarkable.

 

[Andy Kev.]

I'm a big fan of dark matter: 85% of the universe is missing, and this must be true because ever-so-very clever people say it is true. When I get my answer wrong by 85%, I tend to try again: when cosmologists get it wrong, they assume the universe is being sneaky. How's that for a career?

I'm inclined to agree with you. However, there is one nagging thing that makes me think the boffins might just be right. Apparently, they may be able to account for dark matter if there are more dimensions than the four (if you count time as a dimension) which we recognise. The problem is that we are programmed only to be able to see the normal dimensions. Trying to grasp the other ones might be like trying to get a deep sea fish to recognise water (it's all around the fish but it might not be aware of it as such). Dark matter - if it does exist - is far more nebulous a concept than that. I wonder if it is the very stuff of space itself.

OTH my instincts tell me that they're barking up the wrong interstellar vortex and a new theory is needed.

 

[sammy.se]

There's a great book on my shelf, which I got when contemplating the subject of this thread for myself.

It's called Ikigai. Link below. It's about a part of Japan where concepts of life and work blend. What you are good at, what adds value and what you enjoy intersect. People are happy and content, and live LONG lives, maybe because of it. There's no retirement - people have a lifestyle (like Bob says).

Great read.

Ikigai: The Japanese secret to a long and happy life https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/178633089 ... 5Db977AQS6

Me personally - if I did what I enjoyed (painting and making) I might make a living one day, but that's unlikely. And right now I have bills and sadly I can't get off the treadmill to try something I love for a living....

If I could have my time again, I would start a career in some form or creative engineering, like architecture, industrial design. I followed my head (what will pay the bills?) and not my heart when I was younger. I regret that every day and now I encourage my kids to do what they love.

Now I've depressed myself writing this post!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Trainee neophyte]

There's a great book on my shelf, which I got when contemplating the subject of this thread for myself.

It's called Ikigai. Link below. It's about a part of Japan where concepts of life and work blend. What you are good at, what adds value and what you enjoy intersect. People are happy and content, and live LONG lives, maybe because of it. There's no retirement - people have a lifestyle (like Bob says).

Great read.

Ikigai: The Japanese secret to a long and happy life https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/178633089 ... 5Db977AQS6

Me personally - if I did what I enjoyed (painting and making) I might make a living one day, but that's unlikely. And right now I have bills and sadly I can't get off the treadmill to try something I love for a living....

If I could have my time again, I would start a career in some form or creative engineering, like architecture, industrial design. I followed my head (what will pay the bills?) and not my heart when I was younger. I regret that every day and now I encourage my kids to do what they love.

Now I've depressed myself writing this post!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

You can do whatever you want to do. It takes huge bravery to change tracks, but the hardest part of the whole process is deciding to do it. Once you start, one thing follows another, but taking that first step...

 

[sammy.se]

There's a great book on my shelf, which I got when contemplating the subject of this thread for myself.

It's called Ikigai. Link below. It's about a part of Japan where concepts of life and work blend. What you are good at, what adds value and what you enjoy intersect. People are happy and content, and live LONG lives, maybe because of it. There's no retirement - people have a lifestyle (like Bob says).

Great read.

Ikigai: The Japanese secret to a long and happy life https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/178633089 ... 5Db977AQS6

Me personally - if I did what I enjoyed (painting and making) I might make a living one day, but that's unlikely. And right now I have bills and sadly I can't get off the treadmill to try something I love for a living....

If I could have my time again, I would start a career in some form or creative engineering, like architecture, industrial design. I followed my head (what will pay the bills?) and not my heart when I was younger. I regret that every day and now I encourage my kids to do what they love.

Now I've depressed myself writing this post!

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

You can do whatever you want to do. It takes huge bravery to change tracks, but the hardest part of the whole process is deciding to do it. Once you start, one thing follows another, but taking that first step...

Thanks.... But is that possible when you have X amount of bills that need paying per month, with kids etc, while the thing you want to do will most likely not pay for that?

What I mean is, what I love may simply not be enough to live off...

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[will1983]

Sounds interesting, I hope it goes well. I set up in 2004 and never looked back, however I had quite a few years working for a high end company before setting up, which for me was a great learning curve, quality at speed.
If I can help in anyway feel free to PM.

Thank you Bob! I've seen some of the things you produce and if I can get anywhere close to that I'll be very happy!

 

[Trainee neophyte]

Thanks.... But is that possible when you have X amount of bills that need paying per month, with kids etc, while the thing you want to do will most likely not pay for that?

What I mean is, what I love may simply not be enough to live off...

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Apologies - smug advice from random internet people is not what you want. It's the Facebook thing of people only showing their perfect lives - I have lots of stress and difficulties, and things go wrong (today I discovered that my sheep have started eating the bark off the olive trees - freezer camp for them, and problem solved, but right now I am busy, so it will have to wait, while I watch them slowly murder the trees). The thing about life is that if you don't have any stress, you will create some anyway. Always best to be living in a state of perpetual chaotic disaster - that way you can have fun solving all the problems. This is what I tell myself, anyway.