Car boot finds (Plane info required!)

[worn thumbs]

My daily user since the early seventies has been a Stanley No4 with plastic handles.It works brilliantly,although it has the excessive free play in the adjustment mechanism that you mention.The issue of non-wooden handles seems to come from a section of the woodworking world who cling to the belief that there is something inferior about plastic and I have even known a few that spent money on wooden replacements.They are just a means of transmitting the effort of your muscles to the cutting edge of the iron and if the plane is well set up the cutting just happens.It seems the OP is happy and I wish him many happy hours of planing.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

I don't think it's clinging to the belief that there is something inferior about plastic, so much as finding wood more tactile and comfortable.

 

[Eric The Viking]

Well I hate plastic handles, but...

... my first plane, bought new, was a Stanley #5 from around 1980. I still have it, and following advice here I fettled it, around 28 or so years after I bought it, and it is now brilliant. It is still my lightweight goto general purpose plane, and it's in the same series as yours.

Things that mattered (that I needed to do):

• Flatten the sole. I did this with wet and dry stuck to a slab of thick glass. As with sharpening, going down through the grits, to a smooth flat surface, checking with a straightedge. It was hard work, messy and I thought I'd never get it done, but it now sticks to the wood by suction sometimes! It doesn't need a mirror finish, just to be flat and straight. You may not need to do this - your #4 is a smoother mainly and possibly a bit short for trueing long stock, but it should take a fine shaving, as you've shown.
• True-up the leading edge of the lever cap and cap iron. Both need straight and square-across business ends, and probably a slight acute angle where they contact, so that the max force is transferred smoothly from lever cap to cap iron to cutting iron. I only needed to remove a tiny amount of material, but both were concave, leaving a gap over the centre of the cutting iron. shavings used to getcstuck, and I'm fairly certain the iron could chatter too.
• I think I scraped paint off the main casting and the bottom of the frog, where the two mate, so that the frog now makes good solid and tight contact, and cannot slip rock or twist. The machining is not wonderful, but I think it is square, just with too much clearance, so that it can skew if you're not careful tightening it down.
• I also changed the handles, but not for ages. Crown tools make Rosewood replacement kits, and I recommend them. I used to get blisters using it, and found the plastic wasn't helping, as it was rather rough and became sticky with heavy use. I couldn't find anything to clean it nicely, but plenty of solvents for the plastic! The other thing that fixed the blisters was learning to keep it sharp!
• And finally I bought a laminated Japanese iron for it. These things are wonderfully evil - transparent shavings on the very worst stock, and they do keep a good edge for longer. But I also learned to sharpen properly, and so I am now quite happy using the original iron, as the steel is pretty good too.

It's still my favourite plane, looks a lot nicer with proper handles, and no longer gives me blisters. But therecis a lot of play in the adjusters, and when the iron is square to the sole, the skew adjuster is usually miles off - the disc on it doesn't have the rivet hole in the centre! But it works well and I am fond of it.

E.

PS: keep a tealight handy to wax the sole in use - works wonders!

 

[BluegillUK]

Thanks again all, I've learned a lot from this thread! I'll leave the handles as they are for now until I use it enough to decide if wood may feel better, but it's quite nice on the grip as it is at the moment. I tested the sole for square when I got home and it's spot on, so no flattening required. I *think* I've fettled the cap iron properly as looking at it parallel to the cutting iron, there's no gap and it sits nicely flush on the iron. Hoping to make a stool over the next few weeks so I'll get a chance to put this through its paces, hopefully learning the technique as I go.

Steering off the plane topic slightly, for someone who has no nice pieces of hardwood knocking about, would a couple of 18/25mm pieces of MDF do for the vice as a temporary solution?

 

[Ttrees]

If you have no timber to practice on, go looking for some skips especially anywhere doing renovations .
Take doors if you can get em or windows.
The timber will be as good as the day it was cut under a bit of crud or weathering.
If you can't wait till then you'll have to make do with softwood for now.
If your looking at pallets look up pallet wood in the archives as theirs a lot of printing on them to show you whats safe to work
as theirs nasty chemicals on some.

You should have a look at cabinet scrapers ...I made a thread titled make yer own cabinet scraper
Scrapers should be used to take the crud off the timber first before planing.

Find some timber for your vice ...or rough cut the mdf and dont bother attaching it to it
Mitch's videos will give you a good demonstration on fettling the underside of your cap iron
David W's will give you the best on the top side.
Tom

 

[ED65]

I *think* I've fettled the cap iron properly as looking at it parallel to the cutting iron, there's no gap and it sits nicely flush on the iron.

Sounds good. The plane will soon tell you if the cap iron needs a bit more work! Shavings can jam into even the tiniest of gaps so if there is one they'll find it

Hoping to make a stool over the next few weeks so I'll get a chance to put this through its paces, hopefully learning the technique as I go.

I'd strongly recommend practising on some scrap wood before tackling your project wood. Planing is basically easy if you have resources to troubleshoot any problems that might arise as you do, but there are numerous adjustments that need to be done simultaneously to achieve specific things and it's best not to try to learn those while doing finish planing.

Steering off the plane topic slightly, for someone who has no nice pieces of hardwood knocking about, would a couple of 18/25mm pieces of MDF do for the vice as a temporary solution?

That'll do fine. Nearly any wood can be used, including pine. Many actually prefer lining their vices with softwoods because their relative softness reduces the chance of bruising workpieces, although another way of achieving the same goal with hardwood or strong plywood jaws is to glue on some leather which provides some cushioning and lots of additional grip.

 

[BluegillUK]

I *think* I've fettled the cap iron properly as looking at it parallel to the cutting iron, there's no gap and it sits nicely flush on the iron.

Sounds good. The plane will soon tell you if the cap iron needs a bit more work! Shavings can jam into even the tiniest of gaps so if there is one they'll find it

Hoping to make a stool over the next few weeks so I'll get a chance to put this through its paces, hopefully learning the technique as I go.

I'd strongly recommend practising on some scrap wood before tackling your project wood. Planing is basically easy if you have resources to troubleshoot any problems that might arise as you do, but there are numerous adjustments that need to be done simultaneously to achieve specific things and it's best not to try to learn those while doing finish planing.

Steering off the plane topic slightly, for someone who has no nice pieces of hardwood knocking about, would a couple of 18/25mm pieces of MDF do for the vice as a temporary solution?

That'll do fine. Nearly any wood can be used, including pine. Many actually prefer lining their vices with softwoods because their relative softness reduces the chance of bruising workpieces, although another way of achieving the same goal with hardwood or strong plywood jaws is to glue on some leather which provides some cushioning and lots of additional grip.

Cheers- I've got loads of the Meranti/Sapele (like, LOADS!) to practice on before I get down to business with the project, so I will give that a go. I've heard that Meranti and Sapele can be a bit of an arse pain to plane but it's sharp as anything, so fingers crossed I'll be OK. What do I need to watch out for or is it literally a case of if the sole is flat, whatever I'm planing will eventually be flush and flat too? Are there any other things I could essentially do wrong so the final planed surface isn't flat?

 

[ED65]

I've heard that Meranti and Sapele can be a bit of an buttocks pain to plane but it's sharp as anything, so fingers crossed I'll be OK.

Those should be great practise woods because there are likely to be challenging sections somewhere on at least one of the boards, although to be fair there are tricky areas to be found around any knot in a piece of pine or another softwood. Once you learn to set the cap iron right, assuming it's fettled properly, almost all woods previously thought to be a PITA to plane can be crossed off that list 8)

What do I need to watch out for or is it literally a case of if the sole is flat, whatever I'm planing will eventually be flush and flat too? Are there any other things I could essentially do wrong so the final planed surface isn't flat?

Yes unfortunately a flat sole doesn't ensure a completely flat planed surface, and particularly not a level flat surface. The longer the plane the easier it is to end up with a flat surface along the length of the board because the plane doesn't ride up and down over humps but instead bridges them so it skims off their tops, as shown here:

However it's still very easy to plane down one edge a little deeper, making the face at minimum angled, or slightly convexed. It's easy to spot this and other issues if you stop and check periodically with a square and straightedge (not just for now but always).

The most common beginner error may be dubbing of the ends of the boards, which is why almost all good older texts on hand-tool use will mention it. Learners tend to do this because of how the plane is pressed against the wood at the start and end of the cut. and the standard advice to help avoid it is pressing down firmly on the front knob at the start of the stroke and slowly letting up pressure on it through the cut (or just as you reach the end) with downward pressure applied to the rear handle only.

Here's this advice taken from the same Stanley leaflet as the above image, at the left here:

This is tricky to get the hang of initially but once you develop the habit you won't need to think about it, it'll just become a habit.

Note also the panel at right. That little detail, "as close to the edge as possible", got forgotten about by a lot of people for quite some time for some reason and there has been much discussion here and on other woodworking forums about why, although the reasons remain obscure.

 

[Ttrees]

Presuming you have a bench since your asking advice about a vise.
A piccy or good description of your bench might help, as it might help us advise you if its suitable as is.
For instance, I think its a very good idea to have a trusty reference surface to plane on.
You will be able to lay your timber on the surface and see which way your timber is bowed.
Use a light to shine underneath, or rub the bench with a crayon and rub your work against this to show you the high spots
the only points of contact to be removed.
Or hold one end of the length and see if it pivots from the end or spins like a propeller.
If it spins like a propeller ...its high in the middle

Sit your timber on the bench, hollowed side down, as the timber sits on the edges and doesn't see saw while planing.
This means that you will be 95% scooping the timber only from the middle on the other top side.
Always aim for the slightest hollow on both sides of your work... a paper thickness
it sits correctly then on the bench.

Don't dive the plane off the edges on this top side ..leave about 5mm of each end ...
Finish up with a finer cut with one or two at most cuts.
Another 51/2 plane would be better for the work though so you could leave the 4 for smoothing

If you can have a reference surface it will be a help ....you might choose to lay this on top of your bench,
In which case your wooden vice jaws will need to be taller .
You will enjoy planing that meranti, its lovely stuff to work

 

[BluegillUK]

I've heard that Meranti and Sapele can be a bit of an buttocks pain to plane but it's sharp as anything, so fingers crossed I'll be OK.

Those should be great practise woods because there are likely to be challenging sections somewhere on at least one of the boards, although to be fair there are tricky areas to be found around any knot in a piece of pine or another softwood. Once you learn to set the cap iron right, assuming it's fettled properly, almost all woods previously thought to be a PITA to plane can be crossed off that list 8)

What do I need to watch out for or is it literally a case of if the sole is flat, whatever I'm planing will eventually be flush and flat too? Are there any other things I could essentially do wrong so the final planed surface isn't flat?

Yes unfortunately a flat sole doesn't ensure a completely flat planed surface, and particularly not a level flat surface. The longer the plane the easier it is to end up with a flat surface along the length of the board because the plane doesn't ride up and down over humps but instead bridges them so it skims off their tops, as shown here:

However it's still very easy to plane down one edge a little deeper, making the face at minimum angled, or slightly convexed. It's easy to spot this and other issues if you stop and check periodically with a square and straightedge (not just for now but always).

The most common beginner error may be dubbing of the ends of the boards, which is why almost all good older texts on hand-tool use will mention it. Learners tend to do this because of how the plane is pressed against the wood at the start and end of the cut. and the standard advice to help avoid it is pressing down firmly on the front knob at the start of the stroke and slowly letting up pressure on it through the cut (or just as you reach the end) with downward pressure applied to the rear handle only.

Here's this advice taken from the same Stanley leaflet as the above image, at the left here:

This is tricky to get the hang of initially but once you develop the habit you won't need to think about it, it'll just become a habit.

Note also the panel at right. That little detail, "as close to the edge as possible", got forgotten about by a lot of people for quite some time for some reason and there has been much discussion here and on other woodworking forums about why, although the reasons remain obscure.

Cheers dude, this is exactly what I was after and the Stanley reference images are awesome! I'll try and have a go tonight. Practice practice practice I'm assuming

 

[BluegillUK]

Presuming you have a bench since your asking advice about a vise.
A piccy or good description of your bench might help, as it might help us advise you if its suitable as is.
For instance, I think its a very good idea to have a trusty reference surface to plane on.
You will be able to lay your timber on the surface and see which way your timber is bowed.
Use a light to shine underneath, or rub the bench with a crayon and rub your work against this to show you the high spots
the only points of contact to be removed.
Or hold one end of the length and see if it pivots from the end or spins like a propeller.
If it spins like a propeller ...its high in the middle

Sit your timber on the bench, hollowed side down, as the timber sits on the edges and doesn't see saw while planing.
This means that you will be 95% scooping the timber only from the middle on the other top side.
Always aim for the slightest hollow on both sides of your work... a paper thickness
it sits correctly then on the bench.

Don't dive the plane off the edges on this top side ..leave about 5mm of each end ...
Finish up with a finer cut with one or two at most cuts.
Another 51/2 plane would be better for the work though so you could leave the 4 for smoothing

If you can have a reference surface it will be a help ....you might choose to lay this on top of your bench,
In which case your wooden vice jaws will need to be taller .
You will enjoy planing that meranti, its lovely stuff to work

Thanks for the post Trees- I've actually not yet got a bench to work from and I don't have any boards per se to use. I am planing and gluing up several sections of old thick window frames and then plan to plane them flush. I've got a low cabinet that I'm using to support any work that I am doing but it is far from ideal. The plan is to build a simple bench when it warms up a little and I have some more evening light and money! I bought the vice as something I could use attached to my cabinet (it's like a low chest of drawers) as just *something* that could hold a piece of work. I've got an old B&D workmate which I use for smaller stuff.

Far from ideal I know but we've all got to start somewhere eh?

 

[Ttrees]

I wasn't talking about boards yet .
I recommend you find something flat to lay on your work surface, like a fire door or some other thick composite that wont flex
Forget about the workmate
You will be chasing your tail trying to plane on that surface, and constantly checking your timber against one of your three master edges.

You need the three master edges to check against each other,
This is so you don't encounter the phenomenon of two bent pieces matching each other.
These will need to be your most stable stock, and light should not show between them .
You need this reference or you will be always matching pieces together and when the time comes to make something it won't be as accurate as you like.
The flat bench is fast ...no clamping things in a vise, just using a planing stop .
Flipping the timber over and checking in the ways I mentioned ...a bit off there flip it over and plane, check again.
Go look for a fire door or some composite that's flat and won't flex

 

[BluegillUK]

Went back to for a mooch at the car boot today and accidentally bought another plane. This is *really* addictive isn't it?!

This time it was a Record No. 4 1/2 which I grabbed at £10. Not a great a deal as the Stanley but I wanted to buy something to clean up and play with as opposed to the Stanley which I've already got working its backside off! I dated the Record to mid 50's, which is really satisfying. It's not the oldest around by any stretch of the imagination but it's 70 years of English woodworking history, which excites me

 

[AndyT]

You're at the top of a slippery slope - keep posting on here and we'll gather round and give you a shove!

 

[ED65]

4 1/2s are rarer than 4s (much rarer?) which is a good start, and Records from the 50s are well regarded so together you got something fairly desirable. And for a tenner? I'd call that money well spent. Even in fairly rusty shape I wouldn't hesitate at that price.

 

[BluegillUK]

4 1/2s are rarer than 4s (much rarer?) which is a good start, and Records from the 50s are well regarded so together you got something fairly desirable. And for a tenner? I'd call that money well spent. Even in fairly rusty shape I wouldn't hesitate at that price.

Well that's what I thought, so I took the plunge. Some chap had a Stanley 4 1/2 too. He wanted £20 for it but I didn't fancy it. Looked quite modern, bit too shiny for my liking!

This one will be a good one to play with and try and restore back to use.