can't get box sq! also want to build router tble

[beek]

I'm making a beehive and made a right balls of the brood box(main hive where queen lives) but it's still ok for doing it's job. Now I've to make the super boxes(the box for surplus honey) I can't get it sq. It's made out of wbp ply and it's supposed to be 460mm sq. I cut the timber to size, routered out a notch in the main side boards so the other side boards to sit in. I've cut the handrails to size thou a few mm out in 2 of them.

When I glue and screw them and put a sq inside, I can't get the 4 corners sq. I can get 2 sq but never the 4 sides. My head is fried with this and i've another 6 boxes to make!

Need help!

 

[matthewwh]

Have you accounted for the depth of the rebate/housing in the length of the boards that sit in them?

Drawing it out, either to scale or full size may help.

 

[marcros]

Are the parts the correct size, and corresponding sides equal?

Is it a national or other design?

 

[Peter Sefton]

Are the two opposing sides the same length as each other? if so then you should be able to produce a box which is square even if it is a rectangle. Check the diagonal lengths using a tape or rule do not check the corners with a square you will chase your own tail. Checking with a square can give misleading information as the sides of the construction can be bent and will deflect if being cramped.
Cheers Peter

 

[beek]

Are the parts the correct size, and corresponding sides equal?

Is it a national or other design?

Would 1mm difference throw me out of sq. Just checked the inner boards and one end is the straight end of the ply and the other end is the cut end. I think my chop saw isn't cutting properly seeing as it isn't an exact cut.

It's a national hive

 

[marcros]

The 1mm in length shouldn't, an off square end might do. It might throw everything out, so you wrench it back to get that angle square and it contorts the whole box.

 

[gmgmgm]

How are you measuring the "squareness"? Pythagoras, or a measuring tool you "believe to be square"?

I find getting things square to be a pain as well.

 

[beek]

How are you measuring the "squareness"? Pythagoras, or a measuring tool you "believe to be square"?

I find getting things square to be a pain as well.

I just bought a new sq today. I think I've found the problem. My routered grooves are not the exact same length. I measured from the inside to inside of the routered groves and I'm out by 1-1.5mm. I used a handheld router with a guide running along the outside edge.

My workwork skills aren't the best so yous will be hearing more from me from now on. I'm thinking of making a router table so I'm wondering what I will need for this. I have the router and was thinking of buying an old 2nd hand pine table and turn the router upside down. Can yous tell me what else I would need.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

you'll need to come down from the moon before you start

 

[devonwoody]

a bee video for those interested


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cx6eaVe ... o8&index=8

 

[gmgmgm]

How are you measuring the "squareness"? Pythagoras, or a measuring tool you "believe to be square"?

I find getting things square to be a pain as well.

I just bought a new sq today. I think I've found the problem. My routered grooves are not the exact same length. I measured from the inside to inside of the routered groves and I'm out by 1-1.5mm. I used a handheld router with a guide running along the outside edge.

My workwork skills aren't the best so yous will be hearing more from me from now on. I'm thinking of making a router table so I'm wondering what I will need for this. I have the router and was thinking of buying an old 2nd hand pine table and turn the router upside down. Can yous tell me what else I would need.

Check your new square is actually square- it won't be 90.00000 degrees, so you need to see how accurate it really is. Cheap squares can be a few degrees off. (To check: take a straight piece of wood and draw two lines at 90 degrees, reversing the square each time. If you have a £100 square, the lines might be close to being parallel). For gluing up, don't trust a square- trust Pythagoras and measuring the diagonals.

You should be able to get a straight groove with a handheld router and two guides, so I wouldn't expend effort on a router table just yet.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Off tack a little, but if you anticipate any more after your initial batch consider making up jigs to make the parts. You might spend as long making the jigs as making the boxes this time , but next time you'll whizz through them.

 

[Mr T]

I think everything has been said about your squareness problems.

On the router table, this might help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPtT-O_1xvg[url] Chris

 

[beek]

You should be able to get a straight groove with a handheld router and two guides, so I wouldn't expend effort on a router table just yet.

Tbh, i was using a stupid challenge table saw, router and chop saw. The table saw could only cut 200mm with the measuring gauge on and i needed a 225mm cut so had to take the guard of and guide it best i could freehand and the cuts where off so when i used the router, thats then set me off as well. Ive glued the rest together and even tho they aren't perfectly sq, they are decent enough. However, its got me determined to make a table that i can sit my table saw/router in and make a measuring guide so i can get nice clean cuts. Ive been looking online at some homemade table and notice that theres these guides set into the table. Does anyone know where i can get my Hands on-these or what they're even called. As for the homemade routering table, they have these other type plastic things that hold the timber in place when getting routered. What are these also called . Ill be making this table before i start making anymore boxes

 

[Benchwayze]

You made a 'freehand' cut on a table-saw? :shock:

You got away with that, so why not square the ends afterwards with a plane, or with a shooting board?
If you are using plain stock, and mitreing remember 45 deg plus 45 degrees = 90. So does 44.5 degrees + 45.5 degrees. In other words when you join the corners it needs to be square and on plain stock a little discrepancy on each component isn't the end of the world.
From what I recall of beehives, a chop-saw would have the capacity to cross-cut the pieces to length. Maybe you should invest in one, if you have a run of these hives. It would pay you in the end in time saved.

Also, when you measure the pieces that have to fit over another jointed section, don't use a tape measure. Take your measurements from the job itself. Then you KNOW it's the right length. I use a tape measure, usually just to see if a piece of stock is long enough to provide the pieces I want. Afterwards, wherever possible, I ditch the ruddy tape, and use comparative 'measuring'.

HTH

Just found this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_580zIj4XL8

John

 

[beek]

You made a 'freehand' cut on a table-saw? :shock:

You got away with that, so why not square the ends afterwards with a plane, or with a shooting board?
If you are using plain stock, and mitreing remember 45 deg plus 45 degrees = 90. So does 44.5 degrees + 45.5 degrees. In other words when you join the corners it needs to be square and on plain stock a little discrepancy on each component isn't the end of the world.
From what I recall of beehives, a chop-saw would have the capacity to cross-cut the pieces to length. Maybe you should invest in one, if you have a run of these hives. It would pay you in the end in time saved.

Also, when you measure the pieces that have to fit over another jointed section, don't use a tape measure. Take your measurements from the job itself. Then you KNOW it's the right length. I use a tape measure, usually just to see if a piece of stock is long enough to provide the pieces I want. Afterwards, wherever possible, I ditch the ruddy tape, and use comparative 'measuring'.

HTH

Just found this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_580zIj4XL8

John

Yeah i think i was asking for troublee making that freehand cut on the table saw, silly of me i know so this is why im wanting to make a larger table saw/ router table in one table.

Ive planed up the sides for now and made another 2 boxes and even thou they arent 100% perfect, its ok for what i need them for. My chopsaw isnt that big, the most i can cut is 6 inches alought i was thinking of buying another challange chop saw that can cut 10 inchs if i remember corrctly. Im near sure argos sell one like this

As for making the table saw/ router table, do you know exactly whati need to buy so i can move a guide up nd down and back and forward for measureing my timber and also keeping the timber in place when using the router. I have looked online at pics of home made tables but hve yet to find a site when it gives details of exactly wht i need to buy. Ive made a router table before but i had to screw intto the table a straight edge and work towards this. Attaching the router/skill saw to the table i can easyly do but making a guide is where im stuck.

 

[glynster]

For me a 3d object is square when the distance between opposing corners is the same on each corner - not how it looks to an engineers square because wood is a natural product and never glass flat in truth. So, I try and separate out square and flat as measures.

I'd examine every cut and every surface and find the source of the issue - if they all seem correct then clamp the bugger square based on the corners.

 

[Peter Sefton]

I find the most accurate way to check constructions for square is by checking the diagonals but not in isolation as you get the same diagonal measurement when checking an Isosceles Trapezoid but it is clearly not square.

Peter

 

[Benchwayze]

Hi beek,

I can't help you much on the router table. I don't use one myself, and all I can say is you do need a two-part fence which can be moved towards and away from the cutter, as well as have two parts that can be adjusted independently. Also a mitre-guide channel comes in handy, although not all router tables have one. This doesn't have to be parallel with the fence because with a router cutter you are referencing from a single point. With a table -saw blade you must have the mitre-guide channel parallel with the blade, and also the fence must be parallel with both guide channel and blade.

So the blade must be adjustable on its arbor in relation to the table slot, so you can set it up properly. The fence must also be free to move, so you can bring it parallel too. This is difficult to explain in a post, so I hope you see what I am getting at.

There's a stack of videos on YouTube, with instructions for making router tables, and for letting a router plate into a table.

Regards

John

 

[Peter Sefton]

Hi Beek
Here is a new router table Garry has got in for himself

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

He knows a lot about all the products out there give him a call if you need help.

Cheers Peter