stuckinthemud
Established Member
I know traditional Celtic harps used willow (Salix) for carved soundboxes, and I know poplar is a genus of Salix, so can I use poplar for that purpose?
Can I usePoplar for a harp sound box?
- Thread starter stuckinthemud
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I'm not sure this is much help but with other stringed instruments using a soundbox and top, it's the top that matters the most by far; the wood type, thickness, shape, bracing patterns, etc. The back & sides/soundbox matters less so people use all sorts often for cosmetic reasons. It's more of a support and kind of an amplifier, for the top. For instance some guitars are built & braced so the back & sides are deliberately pretty rigid and all the action is in the design of the top.
But I know nothing about celtic harps so.. The mechanics might be different - praps there's a specialist forum or two worth a hunt through.
But I know nothing about celtic harps so.. The mechanics might be different - praps there's a specialist forum or two worth a hunt through.
Ian_B
Established Member
Apparently,
Spruce is traditionally favored for its excellent stiffness-to-weight ratio, providing a bright and resonant tone.
Western red cedar offers a warmer, darker sound.
Poplar, though non-traditional, has been successfully used by some harp makers, yielding a unique tonal character.
Considering the amount of work that it's likely to be, I'd probably go for spruce, even if this means buying a suitable piece. Just my thoughts...
Ian
Spruce is traditionally favored for its excellent stiffness-to-weight ratio, providing a bright and resonant tone.
Western red cedar offers a warmer, darker sound.
Poplar, though non-traditional, has been successfully used by some harp makers, yielding a unique tonal character.
Considering the amount of work that it's likely to be, I'd probably go for spruce, even if this means buying a suitable piece. Just my thoughts...
Ian
profchris
Established Member
This might be worth reading, from a harp maker:
https://www.harpkit.com/resources/h...pBvAg9uxfqyPjAVQTY5XXo3c86mvuXmKGDblxDz204S3V
https://www.harpkit.com/resources/h...pBvAg9uxfqyPjAVQTY5XXo3c86mvuXmKGDblxDz204S3V
stuckinthemud
Established Member
profchris
Established Member
That changes things!
I don't know the answer - I think only a maker of reproduction Celtic harps would have any direct knowledge. However, the following thoughts might be helpful:
1. It depends on what species of poplar you have. European White Poplar (Populus alba) is related to Willow but a different species. It's quite a bit softer and weaker, which could be a problem. Tulip poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera) from the US is what's commonly sold as poplar. It's unrelated to willow, but has quite similar properties - a little softer but perhaps a bit stronger in terms of elasticity, which would be useful for a soundbox. It's about 12% denser on average than Willow, so you'd either want to carve the soundboard a little thinner or find a particularly light piece of Tulip poplar. That apart, it should work in quite a similar way.
2. In terms of musicality, most non-dense wood species can make decent musical instruments. I've made ukuleles from mahogany, sapele, koa, oak, spruce, cedar, among others. I've not come across a poplar instrument, but that's probably because the wood is dull-looking and non-traditional. I'm sure tulip poplar can make music. Instrument makers tend to choose boards or billets by listening to how they ring when held at once corner and rapped with a knuckle, chisel handle, whatever. Some boards ring, some go thunk. Pick one that rings.
3. No idea how to carve the soundboard part - with luck you have plans or pictures to work from. As the strings run along the grain, not across (modern reproductions run the soundboard grain at 90 degrees to the string line for strength) I'm sure there must be some reinforcement internally. If I were making a harp using guesswork I'd run a strut along the string line, maybe 12 x 12 mm, to reinforce the string anchor points and to strengthen the board against splitting. When stringing up I'd go to partial tension and then assess the bulge of the soundboard, adding 90 degree bracing if needed (6 x 12, glueing the 6mm dimension to the board) and re-checking.
4. Shrinkage with humidity change is big in willow, and a little more in tulip poplar, so I'd want my billet to have vertical grain (||||||||||||) for the soundboard part - shrinkage across vertical grain is half that of shrinkage radially! The billet should move as a whole, reducing the risk of cracking, but you don't want it to distort. Also, cross-grain stiffness (resisting the strings) is highest with vertical grain.
I think you just have to try this and see how it works. Good luck!
I don't know the answer - I think only a maker of reproduction Celtic harps would have any direct knowledge. However, the following thoughts might be helpful:
1. It depends on what species of poplar you have. European White Poplar (Populus alba) is related to Willow but a different species. It's quite a bit softer and weaker, which could be a problem. Tulip poplar (Liriodendron tulipifera) from the US is what's commonly sold as poplar. It's unrelated to willow, but has quite similar properties - a little softer but perhaps a bit stronger in terms of elasticity, which would be useful for a soundbox. It's about 12% denser on average than Willow, so you'd either want to carve the soundboard a little thinner or find a particularly light piece of Tulip poplar. That apart, it should work in quite a similar way.
2. In terms of musicality, most non-dense wood species can make decent musical instruments. I've made ukuleles from mahogany, sapele, koa, oak, spruce, cedar, among others. I've not come across a poplar instrument, but that's probably because the wood is dull-looking and non-traditional. I'm sure tulip poplar can make music. Instrument makers tend to choose boards or billets by listening to how they ring when held at once corner and rapped with a knuckle, chisel handle, whatever. Some boards ring, some go thunk. Pick one that rings.
3. No idea how to carve the soundboard part - with luck you have plans or pictures to work from. As the strings run along the grain, not across (modern reproductions run the soundboard grain at 90 degrees to the string line for strength) I'm sure there must be some reinforcement internally. If I were making a harp using guesswork I'd run a strut along the string line, maybe 12 x 12 mm, to reinforce the string anchor points and to strengthen the board against splitting. When stringing up I'd go to partial tension and then assess the bulge of the soundboard, adding 90 degree bracing if needed (6 x 12, glueing the 6mm dimension to the board) and re-checking.
4. Shrinkage with humidity change is big in willow, and a little more in tulip poplar, so I'd want my billet to have vertical grain (||||||||||||) for the soundboard part - shrinkage across vertical grain is half that of shrinkage radially! The billet should move as a whole, reducing the risk of cracking, but you don't want it to distort. Also, cross-grain stiffness (resisting the strings) is highest with vertical grain.
I think you just have to try this and see how it works. Good luck!
