Camcorder recommendations

[Steve Maskery]

Anyone got any?I'm starting to think about producing a DVD or two, and I have no experience at all of the things (apart from a B&W one with an editing suite the size of a flight dexk when I was an undergraduate).

What do I need to look for? And what should I avoid? THe one I like the look of is a JVC hard disk jobbie. Comet have it at 499, but online it is 380. Thats still at the top end of what I want to pay. But there are lots of different models, and some seem to be very similar indeed (like HDD size, zoom etc). So what sets what apart?

All contributions gratefully received.

 

[mailee]

I can't comment on the integral disk one Steve but I do own a JVC digital which uses a very small tape cassette. I have had it for a number of years now and use it regularly on my trips to China among other things. It is a great piece of kit as you can link it to the TV to show your film or use the firewire connection to the computer where you can do all sorts of magic by editing, adding soundtracks, still pictures and a commentry along with fades and wipes ETC. Each tape lasts around 90 mins and the quality is excellent. I regularly convert my movies to DVD to send back to the wifes family and friends. As I say mine is a few years old now and they have come on in leaps and bounds in just a few years so most of what you can buy will give you a good picture it is just a wuestion of how many bells and whistles you want. i would steer clear of any of them that also take still pictures as most are not a high enough resolution to be very good for this. I may be wrong now though as I say there have been a lot of improvements over the last couple of years. hope this is of some help to you.

 

[sliver]

hi Steve,
Afraid I can't help much personally but I just got a jvc gr-d270 or 290 (can't remember which) for swmbos birthday. I had to ask her to select the one that would be best for her, it spoils any surprise but does ensure she gets what is useful rather than useless. I will get her to post a message asap as she is not available at the moment. Plus, I'm sure these knowledgeable & helpful souls on this site will be more than happy to assist. They'll not put you wrong as you already know.

cheers, sliver :wink:

 

[RogerS]

Steve

Can't make any recommendation as I don't have one but I do know that DV in and out is a big plus. Not all cameras accept both. IIRC.

 

[engineer one]

saw recently a review in one of the dailies, which suggested that
the picture quality might not be all you think it will.

i think the standards are changing regularly, and the quality
is imporving so maybe the thing to do is buy one with a
dv rather than the hard disk version, although the record time is
shorter, it is supposed to be more flexible.

not sure if that helps or muddies the water mate, but
suggest you try jessops for advice rather than comet.

paul :wink:

 

[cutting42]

I'm starting to think about producing a DVD or two,

What do I need to look for? And what should I avoid?

All contributions gratefully received.

Hi Steve

Hmm and you think tool buying is a slippery slope....

If you are wanting to make DVD's to give to friends etc the quality is not so important, any modern camcorder will do the job. However if you want to sell them and make a reasonable job of them go quality, by that I mean 3 chip ccd's over 1Mb resolution and you are looking at Canon or Sony camera' s really. You will need to spend over 600 in this range and the sky is the limit as you get into lighting, sound, lenses and editing.

My best advice is to buy the cheapest camera you can find (about 150 ish at the mo) and learn technique first as this will make way more difference than buying a flash camera and hoping it will make the difference cos guess what - it won't!

More general advice is: There are three main formats, miniDV, DVD and hard disk. mini DV is the cheapest and offers great quality 1 hr tapes which can be recorded slow play for 90 mins but at reduced quality. Many pro camera's use mini DV as do the cheapest camcorders. Avoid the DVD camera's as they only have 30 min capacity and a lower data rate (lower quality) despite the convenience of direct recording to DVD. Hard disks are cool and can offer upto 8hrs quality recording time but the technology is new in camera's and you will be much better off spending the money on the basic camera and kit for now.

You will need to edit what you shoot and this is best done on a PC but you will need vast quantities of hard disk space for the best quality video. Using mini DV you will need to "play" the tapes into the PC real time which is time consuming but can be done while tou are doing something else. This is where DVD and hard disks are better as you can download directly at high speed.

You will probably get some editing software with the camera but there are many packages out there which offer much more capability - I use Pinnacle Studio Plus but there are many others much cheaper etc.

To reiterate the above, learn to use a video camera first by borrowing one or buying a cheaper one before investing in a suitable quality item.


HTH

 

[Ed]

Steve,

Totally agree with everything Gareth says. I have an old Panasonic miniDV camera and everytime I play tapes it amazes me with the quality. It's about 8 years old and I paid about 900 GBP for it in Hong Kong. You should be able to get a similar spec for significantly less now.

In terms of image quality I don't think you can go far wrong with miniDVD. What will make a difference will be sound quality and eliminating camera shake. Assuming you can are planning workshop videos you can eliminate the second with a good tripod.

Regarding the sound, make sure the camera you choose has an mic extension socket on the body. Mine is on the docking station, which has to be removed to change tapes which is a bit of a pain. But like I said its an old design. You will want to wear a lapel mic or similar.

One of the most annoying thing on a particular woodwork tool DVD is that as the scene changes so does the volume. Something that can easily be sorted out at the editing stage.

Also consider the size of the thing. In the quest for making things smaller things can get harder to use. Having a dedicated button to turn a specific function on and off can be a lot easier than wading through 10 menus to find the option you want.


Cheers

Ed

 

[gidon]

Steve
I bought one a year and a half ago. Went for a Sony miniDV one. MiniDV gives you the best quality (for consumer) and is also the cheapest. The main drawback is it can only be copied across to your PC is real time. And one miniDV tape equals about 13GB on your HDD. But once on your HDD the video is very easy to edit - few problems with sound sync and no compression loss until you choose your final format. Another advantage I find is that the tape is a very handy archive medium. I actually use my HDD/DVD recorder attached to the TV to do a straight copy of a completed tape to a DVD in most cases. And then keep the tape as the master. If I then want to do some editing I copy the tape to the computer.
In my mind DV-in isn't really worth paying extra for - that's for copying back to a DV tape. With HDD's the size they are, you could use the extra money to get a external 250-300GB drive solely for video editing. And keep the DV quality footage on the PC.
Once you've chosen your format it comes down to shooting quality. If you go for a decent manufacturer (my favoured would be Sony or Canon) then lens quality should be good. Remember that the high powered zooms even with image stabilisation are hard to use well without a tripod. Then for me another important factor was low light performance - if you'll be using the camera a lot indoors - sometimes this can introduce a lot of noise if the the low light performance isn't brilliant. Sony came out well for keeping that noise under control when I looked into this.
Have fun choosing!
Cheers
Gidon

 

[RogerS]

Steve

In my mind DV-in isn't really worth paying extra for - that's for copying back to a DV tape. With HDD's the size they are, you could use the extra money to get a external 250-300GB drive solely for video editing. And keep the DV quality footage on the PC.
Gidon

But if you don't have an HDD/DVD recorder then you don't have an easy way of backing up your tapes or of making an archive....It doesn't take that long to fill up a 300GB drive DAMHIKT. At least with dv-in you can archive your edited results.

 

[cutting42]

But if you don't have an HDD/DVD recorder then you don't have an easy way of backing up your tapes or of making an archive....It doesn't take that long to fill up a 300GB drive DAMHIKT. At least with dv-in you can archive your edited results.

I tend to archive onto a regular record only once DVD once my movie is edited on the computer. This is much faster than playing out again and then I can create multiple versions using different compression rates for posting on the web, emailing as well as the full quality version.

 

[cutting42]

I bought one of these http://www.cameras2u.com/products/details.cfm?product=NVGS27B for taking on holiday and for the kids to use and the quality is unbelievable for the price. No DV in but i never use this on other cameras and you will need to buy a firewire cable to link to the PC (and a firewire port if it does not have one) but get it from ebay or similar for 10-12 quid, dont pay high street prices.

Oh and another thing, do not be tempted by High Def cameras just yet as the stds are not quite figured out and you will have to pay big bucks for a HD DVD recorder of an undecided standard - remember Betamax! Leave the early adopters an the market to decide which technology to use first.

 

[engineer one]

just got my latest makro catalogue, steve,
they have a couple of decent items at around 200-250 plus vat,
seems the way to go maybe if you have the card.
then you can look at the jcb bits they are selling at
silly money. the clamps and the drill bits seem to have gotten
good reviews, and at 4.99 and 9.99 plus vat are worth the risk. :twisted:

paul :wink:

 

[Steve Maskery]

Wow. Thank you all (I think!)

Seems I have a lot of homework to do before I go out spending, which is no bad thing as this month has been very (unplanned) expensive already, and we are about to go on holiday.

If I do take the plunge, I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[sliver]

Hello again Steve,
It seems all bases are covered, my wife has the similar model to mailee so there is no point in repetition. Very good camera they are too. Anyway, have a good holiday my good man & come back safe & well & ready to spend all over again.

ATB, Sliver.