Calling Mike-W - ubuntu update - how about MTUs? ##EUREKA###

[dedee]

Mike
you replied to a thread of mine where I was having problems with Safari4 and OS X 10.5.
You said that olb2.nationet.com was no longer the correct address and that Nationwide had pointed you elsewhere.
I sent you an email about this but have no reply. Could you possibly PM me?

Despite the best efforts of Steve (kityuser) and RogerS I am still no nearer solving my original problem. I will try later to do some diagnostics on the network as Steve believes this is likely to be a DNS issue but and idea of where Safari send you would be useful.

Cheers

Andy

 

[RogerS]

Andy

Can you give us a recap of where you're at?

I'm guessing that you now have Leopard installed plus Safari 4 ?

Could you bear to do a clean instal from scratch? That would give you Safari 3 plus all the relevant extensions that were valid at that time.

One other thought, and I have no idea why this might/might not work but it caused me a load of grief shortly before I went away on holiday, is to try another router.

Roger

 

[dedee]

Roger,
I did an erase and install. Leopard came with Safari 3 so I tried that - no joy. I upgraded to Safari 4 no joy. With the guidance of Steve (kityuser) I've been through no end of things to try and resolve.
I've moved the mac and router to the source phone socket.
I've used openDNS servers in the mac's network settings
I've tried in Firefox too, spoofed to look like IE 6, 7 and 8
I've made sure Java is up todate
We accessed no problem from the wife's windows laptop.
I've used the ethernet cable and airport to connect to the modem
I've tried ranting at Nationwide who maintain the problem is not theirs.
I've tried our ISP who maintain there is no reason why this does not work and therefore the problem is with the mac.
I do not have another router to try, router supplied by ISP Sagem Fast 3302
I cannot add DNS servers directly on to the router.
Steve thinks if I understand correct) that this is still probably a DNS issue which is causing timeouts. He has given me some code to to use in terminal and a network checking software to see what happens when the site freezes. I will give this a try this evening.
I have same friends in the village with a mac but they are on holiday, when they return I will take the mac there and see what happens on their router.

As Mike-w is the only person who has this working on the same setup I would dearly like to make contact.

regards

Andy

 

[RogerS]

Roger,
I did an erase and install. Leopard came with Safari 3 so I tried that - no joy. .....

If IIRC it was working OK at this point in time originally before you went over to Safari 4?

When you loaded Leopard did you try it with safari 3 but without loading any of the security updates? IE as clean and vanilla a system as you could get?

 

[dedee]

Roger,
the last time I can be sure it worked was about in june when I was running 10.4 with Safari 3. It maybe coincidence of course but the only update or software install after that was the update to Safari4.

As soon as 10.5 loaded (impressed with the way to found the network etc) I tried the Nationwide - no joy. Only after that did I run software update. BTW I've avoided loading iTunes9.

Cheers

Andy

 

[RogerS]

Leopard did bring with it a whole slew of security stuff and it might be this that is causing the problem but I would hve thought that it would have manifested itself with other people by now.

Did you try a clean install of Tiger and Safari 3?

 

[dedee]

Leopard did bring with it a whole slew of security stuff and it might be this that is causing the problem but I would hve thought that it would have manifested itself with other people by now.

Did you try a clean install of Tiger and Safari 3?

No, I backed up Tiger to ext disc and erase/install of leopard

andy

 

[TrimTheKing]

Can't see it being DNS as your DNS will be the same for both MAC and PC (should be either taken from router or sent by ISP.

What it could be is something like a host file (or the apple equivalent) that would override DNS and point you to somewhere else.

Might be a silly question but...have you googled it?

I'm on the train at moment so sh!tty signal, but will have a look when I get home if you want?

 

[RogerS]

Leopard did bring with it a whole slew of security stuff and it might be this that is causing the problem but I would hve thought that it would have manifested itself with other people by now.

Did you try a clean install of Tiger and Safari 3?

No, I backed up Tiger to ext disc and erase/install of leopard

andy

Why not try a clean instal of Tiger in conjunction with safari 3. A bit of a pain, I know, but at least that will give you a baseline from which to move forward.

 

[kityuser]

Can't see it being DNS as your DNS will be the same for both MAC and PC (should be either taken from router or sent by ISP.

What it could be is something like a host file (or the apple equivalent) that would override DNS and point you to somewhere else.

Might be a silly question but...have you googled it?

I'm on the train at moment so sh!tty signal, but will have a look when I get home if you want?

the laptop could be using an open DNS, say openDNS for address resolution, the mac could be using the ISP DNS server.
DNS should be configured (in this setup) at the router, and client machines.....


of course you can run your own DNS server..... thats another kettle of fish.

we suspected DNS because he was having name resolution problems when trying to access other sites (e.g. apple.com) but addressing via the IP address (of say apple.com) was working.

if its a file thats overriding the DNS lookup then its still a DNS problem......

name resolution issues I`m sure.....

Steve

 

[TrimTheKing]

Can't see it being DNS as your DNS will be the same for both MAC and PC (should be either taken from router or sent by ISP.

What it could be is something like a host file (or the apple equivalent) that would override DNS and point you to somewhere else.

Might be a silly question but...have you googled it?

I'm on the train at moment so sh!tty signal, but will have a look when I get home if you want?

the laptop could be using an open DNS, say openDNS for address resolution, the mac could be using the ISP DNS server.
DNS should be configured (in this setup) at the router, and client machines.....


of course you can run your own DNS server..... thats another kettle of fish.

we suspected DNS because he was having name resolution problems when trying to access other sites (e.g. apple.com) but addressing via the IP address (of say apple.com) was working.

if its a file thats overriding the DNS lookup then its still a DNS problem......

name resolution issues I`m sure.....

Steve

Not questioning you on that Steve, but it could be any one of a million things but if they're not mentioned then how are we ever going to work it out?

I assumed from the tone of the OP that he doesn't work in IT therefore openDNS would be unlikely (unless someone else set it up for him) otherwise he would have mentioned it.

When you do a 'ping -a' from the machine to an affected site (say apple.com) what does it return? It should return something like below ( mine times out because we don't allow ICMP through our firewalls, but if I was at home it would work). Depending what you see here will determine whether it is unable to resolve the names at all (I don't know your background Steve so no 'granny sucking eggs' moment intended...).

D:\Documents and Settings\TrimTheKing>ping -a www.apple.com

Pinging www.apple.com.akadns.net [17.112.152.32] with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 17.112.152.32:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),

dedee - You will probably not want to do this, but if you did, then you can download an application called HTTPWatch. This is small app which can trace and log every action that happens as you access a website. You can also record these for diagnostic purposes (eg it tells you what errors are being returned and why).

Download it and give it a whirl, I can talk you through it if need be. If you don;t have any joy or can't get to grips with it then I would be happy to look through the logs for you, but can completely understand if you didn't want to do that for security purposes.

Let me know...

 

[kityuser]

Can't see it being DNS as your DNS will be the same for both MAC and PC (should be either taken from router or sent by ISP.

What it could be is something like a host file (or the apple equivalent) that would override DNS and point you to somewhere else.

Might be a silly question but...have you googled it?

I'm on the train at moment so sh!tty signal, but will have a look when I get home if you want?

the laptop could be using an open DNS, say openDNS for address resolution, the mac could be using the ISP DNS server.
DNS should be configured (in this setup) at the router, and client machines.....


of course you can run your own DNS server..... thats another kettle of fish.

we suspected DNS because he was having name resolution problems when trying to access other sites (e.g. apple.com) but addressing via the IP address (of say apple.com) was working.

if its a file thats overriding the DNS lookup then its still a DNS problem......

name resolution issues I`m sure.....

Steve

Not questioning you on that Steve, but it could be any one of a million things but if they're not mentioned then how are we ever going to work it out?

I assumed from the tone of the OP that he doesn't work in IT therefore openDNS would be unlikely (unless someone else set it up for him) otherwise he would have mentioned it.

When you do a 'ping -a' from the machine to an affected site (say apple.com) what does it return? It should return something like below ( mine times out because we don't allow ICMP through our firewalls, but if I was at home it would work). Depending what you see here will determine whether it is unable to resolve the names at all (I don't know your background Steve so no 'granny sucking eggs' moment intended...).

D:\Documents and Settings\TrimTheKing>ping -a www.apple.com

Pinging www.apple.com.akadns.net [17.112.152.32] with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 17.112.152.32:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),

dedee - You will probably not want to do this, but if you did, then you can download an application called HTTPWatch. This is small app which can trace and log every action that happens as you access a website. You can also record these for diagnostic purposes (eg it tells you what errors are being returned and why).

Download it and give it a whirl, I can talk you through it if need be. If you don;t have any joy or can't get to grips with it then I would be happy to look through the logs for you, but can completely understand if you didn't want to do that for security purposes.

Let me know...

I was the one who suggested trying opendns which seemed to fix the apple.com resolution issues. (and thus suggested a DNS "issue");

we are trying some tcpdump watching which seems to be showing some interesting activity thu wireshark. The idea being to compare against a good session accessing the same site.

your suggestion sounds good, albeit from a higher level of abstraction, both should achieve the same results (hopefully).

Steve

 

[TrimTheKing]

I was the one who suggested trying opendns which seemed to fix the apple.com resolution issues. (and thus suggested a DNS "issue");

we are trying some tcpdump watching which seems to be showing some interesting activity thu wireshark. The idea being to compare against a good session accessing the same site.

your suggestion sounds good, albeit from a higher level of abstraction, both should achieve the same results (hopefully).

Steve

Sounds like you have it under control, I'll stick my nose out now

Give me a shout if you want me to look over anything and I'll be happy to help where I can.

Cheers

Mark

 

[kityuser]

I was the one who suggested trying opendns which seemed to fix the apple.com resolution issues. (and thus suggested a DNS "issue");

we are trying some tcpdump watching which seems to be showing some interesting activity thu wireshark. The idea being to compare against a good session accessing the same site.

your suggestion sounds good, albeit from a higher level of abstraction, both should achieve the same results (hopefully).

Steve

Sounds like you have it under control, I'll stick my nose out now

Give me a shout if you want me to look over anything and I'll be happy to help where I can.

Cheers

Mark

no no, not at all, the more help/suggestions the better

Steve

 

[dedee]

Mark,
thanks for the input, as you can probably guess most of this is way over my head. Steve has offered to compare the packet dump file that I created earlier with a session on his computer. So I think it best to see what results that produces before anything else is tried. I really appreciate your and everyone's input on this.

RogerS,
I'd rather not regress back to Tiger at the moment until we can rule in/out this possible DNS issue as explained by Steve earlier.

Cheers

Andy

 

[dedee]

Mark,
sorry, forgot to mention. I have googled "Nationwide Online banking problem Safari 4" and only found instances of either the Nationwide's system being down temporarily or issues surround login. I can login no problem it is only when I try to access the payment/transfers area that Safari/Firefox/Camino and Opera just hang.
I have also raised the issue on a couple of Mac support forums without success.

The HTTPwatch software BTW appears only to be available for windows?

Thanks

Again

Andy

 

[TrimTheKing]

The HTTPwatch software BTW appears only to be available for windows?

Bugger, that's a shame as it's a really good app and has helped us solve loads of similar issues in work. I will see if anything similar exists for Mac...

 

[kityuser]

The HTTPwatch software BTW appears only to be available for windows?

Bugger, that's a shame as it's a really good app and has helped us solve loads of similar issues in work. I will see if anything similar exists for Mac...

how about

http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Internet-U ... -Dog.shtml

Steve

 

[dedee]

I've not much idea what to do with it but I've just found the Developer menu on the Safari tool bar Safari Prefs>advanced>Show Developer menu in menu bar.

these guys seem suggest it gives details simlar to Httpwatch
http://groups.google.com/group/cs193h-h ... a248e46b09

Not sure how to use it though.

Cheers

Andy

 

[TrimTheKing]

The HTTPwatch software BTW appears only to be available for windows?

Bugger, that's a shame as it's a really good app and has helped us solve loads of similar issues in work. I will see if anything similar exists for Mac...

how about

http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Internet-U ... -Dog.shtml

Steve

Looks perfect! Plug in for firefox too so should be fairly seemless.