Cabling up a kitchen advice sought

[RogerS]

I've been musing about the kitchen in particular electrics and Part P - first fix inspection.

Currently the walls are part-tiled exactly where you would expect to see wall-mounted sockets. I'm tempted to chisel them off and then get the wall reskimmed. In my experience that has always given the best end-result. But what about the electrics?

Pre-Part P I would most likely have chased out the wall for the cable runs, chased out for the wall sockets, installed the cables and then made good. Cabling for the appliance sockets would be in plastic conduit behind the floor units.

So - post Part-P - at what point do you get them in to inspect? After chasing and laying in the cables but before making good?

Also re making good, in my experience you never get a very good result trying to skim the plaster back over the cables in a seamless way to the rest of the wall. But perhaps that's just me

Is there a better way? use those pop-up mains sockets that come out of the worktop?

This time I intend to keep the kitchen on its' own ringmain with a separate grid switch.

Many thanks in advance

 

[Woody Alan]

you never get a very good result trying to skim the plaster back over the cables in a seamless way to the rest of the wall. But perhaps that's just me

Errr possibly A few tips if you haven't already done this when skimming to an edge. 1 to 4 pva mix and treat the edges of the trench especially but do all area to be plastered,let it dry this prevents the suction of the existing taking all the moisture out of the plaster and allows you to keep working it much longer. I also put another little 1 to 4 mix on just before I actually plaster. When I have finshed it's seamless. I am not a plasterer but I used to watch my uncle who was. Use a rag to clean up the inevitable runs you'l get of the PVA or they'll dry as ridges. As the plaster is going off, trowel up and push really quite hard, flick plenty of water on and keep the trowel clean with a bucket of water and a brush. You reall y need to watch it being done or practice a lot. Once you get the hang of it it's like riding a bike...but messier. Picture below show two sides of an opening where door lining removed and angle beaded a made good and other pic is example of more similar areas to repair and make good. It is possible to skim to the thickness of the emulsion itself.

Alan

 

[White House Workshop]

Good old Part P raises its head again! And I have another input, this time from a sparks - he told me that as long as I wasn't actually changing any of the existing wiring I could do whatever I liked.

I need to remove tiles and replace them - and of course many sockets are embedded in them. Also there's a run across under a window where I plan to put a patio door. My real question was about that run - he said that as long as all I did was re-route the cable (even if it was a new cable) I would be fine.

So, it just gets more confusing. Fortunately I used to be an electrician so I do know what I'm doing even if I'm not Part P certified....

 

[OLD]

If you ae retiling the making good does not have to be perfect .Part p specifies how wires are run and the design of the circuits and protection but you can still do it yourself as a noncompetent person they will tell you what inspections are required best to read into the subject.
This may help.
http://www.stapeley1.plus.com/odpm_breg_029960 elec regs.pdf

 

[RogerS]

Sorry chaps if I didn't make myself clear.

No problem re Part P as the whole place is being done under Building Control notice and so they will need to come along and check the cable runs as part of first fix. Guess my question is do you leave them exposed in the chasing and let them see them before covering them up?

 

[Jake]

That's what mine want. I've taken the risk and covered up a couple of runs under a t&g ceiling/wall, but I took plenty of photos of the runs underneath first.

 

[RogerS]

That's what mine want. I've taken the risk and covered up a couple of runs under a t&g ceiling/wall, but I took plenty of photos of the runs underneath first.

Did you chase into the wall, Jake? If so, did you bother to use conduit? Gather it's not mandatory.

 

[Digit]

Frankly, listening to the do gooders means we should all be certified.
What p****s me off is the fact for years I wired everything from 7500v down to 12 volts, then over night I'm a danger to life and limb cos I haven't had some pimply teenager tick a few boxes on my behalf.
In today's press is an article that kids will now be able to get a GCSE pass in French without speaking or writing a word of the language, when, I wonder, will they hand out the passes with the birth certificate.

Roy.

 

[Jake]

I never bother, Roger.

If a wall is being replastered entirely, I use capping to protect it from the plasterer's trowel.

If it's in a chase, I just put in the odd cable clip to keep it below surface level when filling the chases. I don't plan on being around for this house's next rewire, and that's the only advantage of conduit. You also have to start thinking about grouping factors, and the rating is lower than direct in plaster.

 

[RogerS]

I never bother, Roger.
....... You also have to start thinking about grouping factors, and the rating is lower than direct in plaster.

That was my take as well but reassuring to hear all the same.

 

[OLD]

You need to ring your contact at building control and ask what they require it will be no problem.

 

[White House Workshop]

In general I'm with Digit on Part P - to the point where we are actually 'competent' in the word sense although not the legal sense of Part P regulations.

Part P is good in that it is supposed to stop the idiots who don't know what they're doing from playing around with stuff that can kill you. However, the onus is on the person to tell the authorities that they've done it, so I wonder just how much poor electrical installation is still going on but no-one knows about it? When a cable is hidden inside a wall there's not a lot an inspection can reveal. When spur junction boxes are hidden away there's not much an inspection will reveal. Add to that the fact that no seller is going to admit to doing something illegal (at least their solicitor won't let them do it!) and the regs are well intentioned but just make life more difficult (and expensive) for the law-abiding. The scumbags won't give a damn...

Incidentally, my home was inspected by a so-called electrical inspector and he passed it as safe. He didn't find the bare live wires chopped off in the attic, the twisted and taped-together connections, and worst of all the fact that we didn't actually have a ring main, just a number of big spurs fed from breakers! Needless to say I haven't touched it since Part P came in. :roll:

 

[Digit]

I have to say that my experience in both Gas and Electrics in recent months has been the same WHWs. Another example of Brussels interference.

Roy.

 

[RogerS]

Actually Part P was entirely UK driven.

PS - We've discussed Part P ad nauseam in the past. Could I have me thread back, please? :wink:

 

[StevieB]

Not sure you can blame Brussels for part P, it was John Prescotts baby 'cos he had nowt else to occupy his time :roll:

Steve.

 

[Digit]

No, it was Brussels Steve, it was simply another instance of Blair and Co not letting people know that they had no choice in the matter, so 2 Jags carried the can, and if you cast your mind back to the start the government ignored the problem so that the system kicked off with a shortage of inspectors.
Think HIPs, the new slaughter house hygiene regs etc etc.

Roy.

 

[Jake]

It's a bit of pain, but actually having been through the process I think it is actually a good discipline by way of making sure you are following the regs (no BS4343 sockets on a ring main!), and the fees (for my council at least) are less than an electrician would charge to do the testing.

 

[Jake]

It wasn't the EU, that's a bendy banana myth. It was the result of a campaign by some MP whose daughter drilled through a diagonal run of cable installed by some cowboy kitchen fitter, and died. The campaign was also supported by lobbying on behlaf of the likes of the NICIEC who saw a CORGI-like guild/monopoly opportunity.

 

[Digit]

Tell me Jake, do these rules not apply throughout the EU?

Roy.

 

[Jake]

Part P doesn't, no.