Buying useful old planes on EBay

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Don't worry about the sides being square and .003" is nothing to fret about.
Unless you are using the plane on a shooting board, the sides don't need to be square. If you need to shoot miters with it, Robert Wearings books have plans for shooting boards that reference from the sole only.

Put a small camber in the blade and it will plane nicely. You can scrape the surface to take the undulations out until you get a smoother.
 
It's still far too useful for a doorstop though.

Ike, I agree with you; ****, every board I work on sees the #5 somewhere along the preparation, but I've had to learn the hard way that I HAVE to work inside it's limitations, the way it bounces off areas of hard, figured elm are really sickening. But, that said, it'll be a while before I get around to finding a direct replacement for it, although I can see me trying an upgraded blade before too long; too many other holes in the armoury to fill first.
 
Mike,

Do you reckon then, that a decent aftermarket blade is worth the investment?. I would like to think so if it would hold a better edge.

You know, I spent about an hour cutting the blade right back to a full 25 deg bevel yesterday on my waterstone. I then put a 30deg microbevel on and stropped it. Bloody hard work getting it right with my bins on. I am thinking ahead to when I can afford the new plane(s)/chisels and whether to invest in some sharpening gear thats quicker and easier to use (and no, I can't run to a Tormek!). Whats your thoughts on a horizontal wet grinder like the Rexon for example. I don't have a bench grinder.

IKE
 
Ike...

from the hoards of them that have gone the upgrade route and craw about the difference it makes, I'm guessing that it's a sound buy, something that I need to get around to sometime as both my #5 and my dad's #4 could benefit from them.

As for the wet stone grinder... I honestly donno; never tried one. There's more than a few here that swear by the tromek but to my mind, I could buy a fair few traditional waterstones for the price of one. My prob is lack of shop space; my stone pond fits on a shelf in a wall rack, the guide and angle jig in a drawer, nice and compact. I guess it depends on what tickles your fancy. I'm happy to hear you're progressing with the hand sharpening; stick at it. as I said, the Stanley blades are the perfect learning tool as they're nice and soft; that A2 cryo stuff I use takes a fair while to tickle by comparison. Nice and theraputic though... the task forces you to focus on it completely which can be a good thing at times...
 
Ike,
Brent Beach has done the hand tool community a huge favor by testing a host of aftermarket blades and developing a sharpening system complete with microscope photos of blades as they are sharpened and as they wear.
Here is his website.

I communicated quite a bit with Brent as he did this work and I have done some testing on my own with the same conclusions.

The system basically is to cut the primary bevel quickly and use a series of smaller and smaller microbevels. Brent uses a belt sander and I have too, but anything that cuts quickly is fine. The next step is to create a small secondary bevel on 15 micron abrasive sheet, followed by an even smaller bevel on 5 micron abrasive and a final bevel on .5 or .3 micron abrasive. This sounds more complicated than it is. The upshot is that the finer grits work on smaller and smaller areas so very little steel has to be removed to polish out the scratches from coarser grits. A tiny backbevel eliminates the need to polish the back of the blade (obviously we are talking about planes with bevel down blades here, backbevels are really bad on bench chisels).

I salvage a lot of blades from old broken planes and it takes about 10 minutes to take an abused blade to full sharpness. After the primary bevel is shaped, rehonings take a minute or less. With the spare blades I can wait until several blades are dull and sharpen them in batches. Using the 3M abrasive sheets on a marble tile means no water for soaking or ponds, etc. which is impractical in my shop where I don't have running water or constant heat in the winter. There are no stones to flatten or maintain. I spent about $25 on abrasives two years ago and I have enough for another year or two.

As to whether an aftermarket blade is a good investment, it depends. Brent came to the conclusion, and I agree, the old laminated Stanley blades work well on softwoods and most North American hardwoods. The newer non-laminated Stanley blades will hold an edge about half as long as a laminated blade. If you use exotic woods or abrasive woods than a tougher steel would be worthwhile. I'm using a Shepherd Tools A2 cryo treated blade in my best #4 and it does a marginally better job than a Stanley blade plus holds an edge about 50%-80% longer but it also takes more time to sharpen. If you have a modern blade, I would recommend replacing it, if you have a laminated blade, I would keep it unless you are working very hard or abrasive timbers. My friend Andrew F from Australia loned me an M2 blade from Academy Saw Works for testing and it was really tough, just the thing for those hard Aussie woods.
 
Roger et al,

Thanks very much for your advice. I don't like trashing tools just because they're 'modern' (unless they are truly awful quality and I don't think the Stanley Bailey #5 I've got falls in that category). Heck, the Stanley does fine for me, at least on softwood.

I'll eventually get a couple nice new planes rather than actively seeking out old ones. I'm going to check out the LV Low Angle Block plane with handles as in Alfs' review (primarily for MiniMe who's dead keen at the moment - thanks for that tip Alf, I thought I'd have to get maybe a #2 for him), and maybe the LN Low Angle Smoother unless the LV feels right in my hands. I'd prefer extra weight as well, given I'm er.. a big bloke with large meathooks. I'm wondering if I'd be better of with a 4-1/2?. A trip to Tools 2004 I think, will decide what to get.

No disrespect to galoots everywhere but I want to get back to making stuff with handtools, not getting carried away with the tools themselves. I thank you all for the info on blades, sharpening and so forth.

All I want is to be fairly sure I'm going to spend my wedge wisely, and to know that if I still struggle to get results, it's simply my fault and I need to practice more!.

cheers

Ike
 
Certainly understandable, Ike. If I had to rely on eBay as a source of vintage tools, I would probably buy new instead. I am no longer an active rust hunter/seller myself.

I used to spend 2 Saturdays a month during the spring and summer going to estate auctions and my wife usually joined me as she could find vintage fabrics and quilting items at the same auctions so this was our entertainment/quality time together. We sold a lot of excess items so this fun was actually profitable. Neither of us need much of anything now so we rarely go out hunting these days.
 
An APTC plane fettling kit would be pricy:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/default.asp?sub=340

The cheapest replacement blade: 21.48 (28.80 if you want the Clifton)
Clifton-cap-iron: 11.34
Crown rosewood handles: 14.76

Kit: 47.58

Adding this to a 30 quid Ebay #5 results in a 77.58 quid plane, and you still have to tune and fettle the thing.

BugBear
 
Obviously I envisaged a discount for the "set". But you're right, not something the hardened Galoot would buy. More something
someone might get to try and rescue the new Stanley he/she'd just been given for Christmas. Anyway, personally I'd add in a few self-adhesive go-faster stripes for the full effect...

Cheers, Alf

P.S. People are paying £30 for a #5?! Sheesh. :shock:
 
Bugbear wrote:

Adding this to a 30 quid Ebay #5 results in a 77.58 quid plane, and you still have to tune and fettle the thing.

I guess a new cap iron and handles are frills to make it look nicer but won't make a huge difference to how well it works. Only the blade might be worth the money to get much better edge holding performance.

I see Axminster do a 'Japanese' laminated blade. I wonder how it compares with an A2 blade?

Ike
 
ike":3cel2euo said:
new cap iron and handles are frills to make it look nicer but won't make a huge difference to how well it works.
Au contraire. A good cap iron can make the world of difference. I might even go so far as to say a decent cap iron will improve a poor blade, but no matter how good the blade, a poor cap iron can make the plane unusable. (I await the brickbats for saying that with resignation :roll: ) As for handles... well a plane's no good if you never use it 'cos it gives you blisters. The handles are the interface between you and the tool, and much more important that a lot of people seem willing to admit. That is, if you plan on using the tool for any length of time. If it's a minute here and there then what the heck, which is why manufacturers don't bother with them any more. No-one in their right mind will surely want to use a hand plane when you can get something with a plug for fifty quid after all... :roll:

Cheers, Alf
 
Alf,

Putting aside the aesthetics, how different is a plastic handle to a wooden handle in prolonged use?
 
Ike,

Well personally I find as my hands get sweaty they tend to slip considerably more on plastic than wood, which is reason enough for me. What happens then is either my hand slips down, the edge rubs against the upright side of the plane and it hurts. Or, my hand slips up and the horn rubs the web of my hand and, guess what, it hurts. Funnily enough the shape of the plastic handles I don't mind at all, and that's not true of all wood handles by any means...

Cheers, Alf
 
So, what makes a poor cap iron?. Can I just fettle the Stanley and if so what should I be attempting to achieve?

cheers

Ike
 
Ike,
I bought the Japanese laminated irons for a #5 and #5 1/2 and they hold an edge much longer than the manufacturers (Record) irons, they seem to be a bit thicker aswell, but i never measured it so i can't be sure of that. I think they are a cost effective 'halfway house' for a user like me where a Lie Nielson would be a waste of money in my hands, but an 'off the shelf' just isn't good enough

jim
 
the japanese samurai irons, as sold by axminster, are generally thicker than modern Stanley & Record irons, but not as thick as, say, a Hock. They're laminated irons, in much the same was as Jap chisels are. They're considered very good - well worth investing in - being laminated, the actual cutting part is hardened to a very high rockwell rating, possibly even as high as an A2. They hold their edge well, but are brittle - shouldn't be a problem in a plane.

One potentially useful trick is to have a samurai and a hock - that way, with different iron thicknesses, you get different plane mouth openings with the same frog setting (from DC, volume 1)


The cap iron - well, I personally actually sharpen my cap irons! I want the interface between the plane iron and the cap iron to be as close to perfect as possible - no gaps for shavings to get caught in, so no choking. What you want to aim for is the ability to sandwich a rizla paper between the cap iron and plane iron, and not be able to pull it out. You want the cap iron so it comes to a point, which is the contact with the plane iron - you definitely don't want the heel of the end of the cap iron being the contact with the blade, cos you've got an instant gap there, and so a choke point.

Also, you want the leading surface of the chip-breaker part of the cap iron to be smooth - sand it, and even wax it - helps shavings go over and curl nicely.

Yes, you can fettle a modern cap iron very nicely - no need to invest in after market ones; the Clifton stay-set 2 piece is a nice bit of kit, but a luxury. Lie-Nielsens new cap-irons are thicker than the old, I understand, and help reduce chatter - not experienced one though
 
ES,

Thanks very much indeed for that.

cheers

Ike
 
I guess a new cap iron and handles are frills to make it look nicer but won't make a huge difference to how well it works.

Ike, aside from Alf's explanation, there's another couple of aspects relating to quality handles. I started out working with a pair of new Stanleys, a #5 and #7, both with plastic handles. In both instances I found that chaffing caused by the mould lines left in the handle caused the web between my thumb and palm to become really tender after a while; as Alf said, they're fine for occasional use, but using them steadily for a couple of days can be physically punishing.
Additionally, there's a slightly more subtle difference, namely the dampening effects wood has on the vibrations generated while planing. I'm guessing that it's something to do with the porus mature of wood, but for whatever reasons, the material itself transmits far less vibration into your hands than plastics. Again, another aspect that makes itself more apparent under prolonged use.
 
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