Bullnose planes. Philly Style Thoughts.....

[Philly]

Hi Folks
I have a few planes in my workshop. Some I use daily, some not so often, some once in a blue moon. But when you need them out they come and do the job simply and quickly, making me look like I know what I'm doing. :roll:
One plane that doesn't come out to play very often is my bullnose plane. Not that is is sub-standard or needs sharpening, it just never comes out of the tool chest. And I started to question why........
What is the purpose of a bullnose plane? The common definition is a plane that can work stopped rebates or into a corner. Obviously a shoulder plane can't work a stopped rebate as the toe of the plane is a few inches ahead of its mouth.. Bingo, the bullnose lets you get real close. Yes???
No.
Follow me with this........
The front mouthpiece of my plane (a Record 077a) is about 3mm? So you plane up to your mark and stop. Well, three mil shy.
Second shaving, you plane along and then you hit the front edge of the shaving you took previously. Result - you are 6mm from your marked line.
Next shaving 9mm back, etc....
So really, you need a chisel plane to plane right up to a stopped rebate. Right?
Then what the heck is a bullnose for?? Is my technique flawed? Am I really a "Collector" and should be damned to tool ****?
Please don't say "take the front toe off the plane and use it as a chisel plane - that defeats the object. And by having a minimal area ahead of the mouth the natural "jigging" effect of a plane is lost and the bullnose if useless for flattening surfaces (tenons, etc) as is the commonly given answer in magazines, etc.
Thank you for listening,
Philly

 

[Evergreen]

Philly

First, just about everyone on this forum has collector tendencies if not the full blown condition. Oh, they don't admit it in public but secretly, very secretly they know it to be true. So don't feel bad about it!

Second, I strongly suspect the bullnose plane to be an evolutionary dead end. It should be extinct but, like the coelacanth, it isn't. I've never owned one precisely because I could never see the point of it.

Maybe a lost tribe of bullnose plane users will come forward and describe its unique abilities. In which case, I'll be pleased to learn them alongside all the other useful stuff I've gleaned from this forum.

Regards.

 

[mambo]

maybe you are supposed to remove that 3mm with a chisel between each stroke of the plane rather than at the end of planing as we would assume :?:

 

[engineer one]

surely you don't use a bullnose to go into a corner??

i always thought it was to stop tear out on a tenon etc??

but what do i know i am only an engineer who likes wood :lol: :twisted: :roll:

paul :wink:

 

[Paul Chapman]

Philly, I think the only way to use one in the scenario you quoted is to take off the last 3mm or so first, with the plane set as a chisel plane or with a chisel, then plane the rest. But you are right, they are of rather limited value. I bought a Record #077 similar to yours many years ago but wish I had bought the #311 or a proper shoulder plane, which would have been far more useful.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Alf]

You're supposed to relieve the area the plane's going to work into with a chisel or summat - the purpose of the bullnose is so you only need to remove enough to allow for a 3mm toe, not a 2" one. :wink: And it's not useless for shoulder work, it's just a little trickier. Charles Hayward was very keen on them; from The Complete Book of Woodwork (1955):

Bullnose Plane - This again is another form of rebate plane, but the cutting edge is near the front of the plane so that it will work up close into a corner. Apart from this, however, it is an invaluable little tool for general work, and can often be used more conveniently than the shoulder plane.

In short, you're a collector and damned to ****. :lol:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Philly]

In short, you're a collector and damned to ****. :lol:

Cheers, Alf

Ahh.....well that makes a lot of sense :lol: :lol:

Seriously, pretty much all my tools have a task that they excel at. Some tools have many purposes (chisels for example) and some seem to have been designed to fill a hole in the companies range of planes.
Thanks to all for your thoughts,
Philly

 

[Paul Chapman]

Mind you, the stopped rebate is always going to present the same problem, whatever tool you use - even with the tailed router, you will still have to finish the last 3mm or so with a chisel.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Nick W]

Mind you, the stopped rebate is always going to present the same problem, whatever tool you use - even with the tailed router, you will still have to finish the last 3mm or so with a chisel.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

OOh, I'm looking forward to the replies to this one! :twisted:

 

[Waka]

I have a few planes in my workshop.

Only a few, I think not, I'm with Alf on this one YOU ARE A COLLECTOR :wink:

 

[MikeW]

You're supposed to relieve the area the plane's going to work into with a chisel or summat - the purpose of the bullnose is so you only need to remove enough to allow for a 3mm toe, not a 2" one. :wink: And it's not useless for shoulder work, it's just a little trickier.

That's how I had always done it. On larger rebates I have used an auger, followed by a bit of chisel work to square it up and then plane down to the level at the ends of the rebates.

Though I am more inclined these days to simply use a non-stopped rebate [or groove] and if a stopped rebate was wanted, glue in the closed ends using scrap from the same board. But then, I only use stopped rebates [or stopped grooves] on backs of cabinets so I don't really care too much whether the slightest of glue lines show there.

Take care, Mike

 

[mahking51]

This all explains why I have 9 bullnose planes - its because I keep looking for one that works Now I am happy!
Regards,
Martin
(who for a horrible moment thought he was a collector like Philly!)

 

[Anonymous]

When I was a nipper a bullnose plane was in most toolboxes.
If we had to do a short rebate stopped at one end, the waste was chiselled out and then the bullnose cleaned up the last couple of ml of depth.
It was never expected to plane the complete stopped rebate.
The value it had was the ability to give an even finish to both planes.

And, your last paragraph answers why some had detatchable noses
"take the front toe off the plane and use it as a chisel plane"
Sorry I had to say it. :roll:

 

[ydb1md]

*snip* and if a stopped rebate was wanted, glue in the closed ends using scrap from the same board. But then, I only use stopped rebates [or stopped grooves] on backs of cabinets so I don't really care too much whether the slightest of glue lines show there.

Take care, Mike

There ya go Mike, being all smart & stuff again. :roll:

I'm gonna to have to use that trick next time I make a stopped groove or dado. :lol:

 

[MikeW]

*snip* and if a stopped rebate was wanted, glue in the closed ends using scrap from the same board. But then, I only use stopped rebates [or stopped grooves] on backs of cabinets so I don't really care too much whether the slightest of glue lines show there.

There ya go Mike, being all smart & stuff again. :roll:

I'm gonna to have to use that trick next time I make a stopped groove or dado. :lol:

Well, the stopped dado presents the problem of the stop being on the show side of the piece. Glued blocks there will ineveitably show.

On them, it is the brace and bit, followed with one's fav method of defining the shoulders, pop out the waste and the use of a router plane. Which I will do if I *really* want stopped dadoes.

My usual reality is just to make them through dadoes and make sure the fit at the show side is very tight. Makes it look like they were suppose to be there.

Fitting a block to close a stopped dado would look like a through dado anyway.

Take care, Mike