Built in wardrobe door spacing with flush infills

[Woodworking Chancer]

Hi,

First post, I've searched and not found an answer specific to my question so hope this hasn't been answered before.

I'm designing my own inbuilt wardrobes. I think I will aim for 3mm gaps between doors, so my doors are currently 497mm each for two doors per carcass at 1000mm.

They will be slab doors, so the lines need to be really crisp, to my mind. I have two questions:

1) What I'm not sure about is the infills. I think they will look better flush with the doors as they have a bit of width to them (about 75mm each.) I'm getting in a twist with the gaps here - I'm thinking the gap to the infill should also be 3mm so that it's all completely even, but then the door next to the infill will need to move over more, unless I can find a way to attach an L-shape infill with a 1.5mm spacing. How do people ensure nice even spacing to match the door spacing when doing flush infills? At the moment, on my design, the doors sit 1.5mm in from the edge of the carcass, thus creating a 3mm gap between all doors but with 1.5mm to the edge, so I don't think this would look great with the ways I can see to do infill strips.

2) is 3mm OK? Seems to be smaller than lots of shop bought doors which seem to be 496mm, but when I think about my tile 3mm grout lines in my bathroom, they would be quite big for a gap between doors to my mind. Should I aim for 2 instead?

Thanks in advance,
Pete

 

[Doug71]

I generally aim for a 2mm gap but 3mm is fine, it depends on how you want things to look.

Keep the gap the same between the door and the infill by keeping the door 2mm (if that's what you go for) in from the edge of the carcass and the infill tight to the carcass, so for me your 497mm doors would work right with 2mm gaps

It's easier getting the gaps right when you make something yourself rather than on say a kitchen you have bought where you just have to do the best you can adjusting the gaps between the doors and drawers etc trying to get them equal.

 

[Woodworking Chancer]

I generally aim for a 2mm gap but 3mm is fine, it depends on how you want things to look.

Keep the gap the same between the door and the infill by keeping the door 2mm (if that's what you go for) in from the edge of the carcass and the infill tight to the carcass, so for me your 497mm doors would work right with 2mm gaps

It's easier getting the gaps right when you make something yourself rather than on say a kitchen you have bought where you just have to do the best you can adjusting the gaps between the doors and drawers etc trying to get them equal.

Thanks Doug,

Yes I think I'm leaning towards 2mm as well so I'll have a fiddle on SketchUp to alter things.

So the infills being flush to the side makes sense to me, but where I'm getting muddled is having two 1000mm carcasses next to each other. So if I inset, say, the left door of the left wardrobe 2mm from carcass edge, it'll need to be 1mm from the other carcass edge in order to maintain the 2mm to the left door of the right wardrobe. So then I end up with 497.5mm doors. Not sure if I'll cut myself or send to a company. Can companies do 0.5mm increments?

If I stick with 497 I think I'd end up with roughly 2.3mm gaps in order to keep them all the same over the span of two wardrobes, which feels like I'll be endlessly fishing with hinges to guess the width.

Any thoughts? Thanks again for the input.

Pete

 

[Doug71]

Don't over think it, if it makes it easier would it matter if 2 doors were 497mm and 2 were 498mm?

Blum type hinges have loads of adjustment on them and all the measurements you need are in their online brochure. It's all a bit daunting at first but just buy a pair and have a play and you will soon work it out.

https://www.trade-hinges.co.uk/soft-close-cabinet-hinge-overlay-2-p.asp
https://publications.blum.com/2020/catalogue/en/78/

 

[Wattsjoinerybarn]

Assuming you are using cup hinges and it’s not a massive run of wadrobes so there will be little to no progressive error I would just stick to whole numbers as you can even the gaps out to be equal divisions as near to 2/3 mm

 

[Woodworking Chancer]

Don't over think it, if it makes it easier would it matter if 2 doors were 497mm and 2 were 498mm?

Blum type hinges have loads of adjustment on them and all the measurements you need are in their online brochure. It's all a bit daunting at first but just buy a pair and have a play and you will soon work it out.

https://www.trade-hinges.co.uk/soft-close-cabinet-hinge-overlay-2-p.asp
https://publications.blum.com/2020/catalogue/en/78/

Actually that could work. Hadn't thought of that as an option to have one door 1mm wider just to keep all the gaps as whole numbers.

And I suppose as well that keeping to 497 won't be too hard to adjust, as it only needs to look right to the eye.

Thanks again!

 

[Woodworking Chancer]

Assuming you are using cup hinges and it’s not a massive run of wadrobes so there will be little to no progressive error I would just stick to whole numbers as you can even the gaps out to be equal divisions as near to 2/3 mm

Just the two carcasses with a 500mm section with drawers before and then open shelving above, which I'm not sure yet if I'll place in the middle or left. They complicate things a bit I think to keep gaps even.

Actually I think I've just worked out that I need 12mm of gaps altogether with infill strips on far left and far right, so to arrive at a round number for gaps and door/drawer widths I can just reduce carcass widths by 1mm each, to 999, 999, and 499, with doors and drawer faces at 497mm.

Will check in the morning on SketchUp. Thanks for the input!

 

[Woodworking Chancer]

Just the two carcasses with a 500mm section with drawers before and then open shelving above, which I'm not sure yet if I'll place in the middle or left. They complicate things a bit I think to keep gaps even.

Actually I think I've just worked out that I need 12mm of gaps altogether with infill strips on far left and far right, so to arrive at a round number for gaps and door/drawer widths I can just reduce carcass widths by 1mm each, to 999, 999, and 499, with doors and drawer faces at 497mm.

Will check in the morning on SketchUp. Thanks for the input!

*drawers BELOW and then open shelving above.

Fat fingers...

 

[Wattsjoinerybarn]

Just the two carcasses with a 500mm section with drawers before and then open shelving above, which I'm not sure yet if I'll place in the middle or left. They complicate things a bit I think to keep gaps even.

Actually I think I've just worked out that I need 12mm of gaps altogether with infill strips on far left and far right, so to arrive at a round number for gaps and door/drawer widths I can just reduce carcass widths by 1mm each, to 999, 999, and 499, with doors and drawer faces at 497mm.

Will check in the morning on SketchUp. Thanks for the input!

Tbf I often do the same and end up having to use 1/2mm’s but the past few jobs I worked out I can adapt pretty much every part of my work even if it sits between two walls, most of my stuff is face frame so margins can be a little tricky too. I ave actually disabled 1/2mm’s in sketch up too.

If you are thinking in this much detail your project will work well

 

[Woodworking Chancer]

Tbf I often do the same and end up having to use 1/2mm’s but the past few jobs I worked out I can adapt pretty much every part of my work even if it sits between two walls, most of my stuff is face frame so margins can be a little tricky too. I ave actually disabled 1/2mm’s in sketch up too.

If you are thinking in this much detail your project will work well

Thanks, I'm a bit obsessive about trying to get things right, but especially as I might get the material cut for me as I'm leaving towards Kronospan mfc, so hoping to measure one hundred times and cut once! If it's too big I can always cut it down a bit more, but too small and I'm a bit screwed!

Last question if anyone gets a chance: any floating shelves on pins, should they be designed 1mm ish less in width to ensure they fit pretty snuggly but with enough wiggle room in case there's any tiny errors in putting it together etc? Too big and they'll have to be forced into place which wouldn't be great (although again I could trim them easily enough).

Thanks for all the help guys, very useful.

 

[ChrisWiduWood]

Thanks, I'm a bit obsessive about trying to get things right, but especially as I might get the material cut for me as I'm leaving towards Kronospan mfc, so hoping to measure one hundred times and cut once! If it's too big I can always cut it down a bit more, but too small and I'm a bit screwed!

Last question if anyone gets a chance: any floating shelves on pins, should they be designed 1mm ish less in width to ensure they fit pretty snuggly but with enough wiggle room in case there's any tiny errors in putting it together etc? Too big and they'll have to be forced into place which wouldn't be great (although again I could trim them easily enough).

Thanks for all the help guys, very useful.

1mm is fine, but remember to allow for edging if you edge the sides (not necessary in my mind) also the edging on the front for your overall depth

 

[Woodworking Chancer]

1mm is fine, but remember to allow for edging if you edge the sides (not necessary in my mind) also the edging on the front for your overall depth

Thanks - good advice and I think I'm just going to edge the fronts. I'm hoping that the sides not being edged won't be visible with 0.5mm either side. The cutting company take account of the edging in overall dimensions that I provide as far as I know, but I'll double check that to be sure.

 

[MikeJhn]

Just a thought on the doors, don't forget the radius of the opening door on the back edge when it meets the adjacent door, hinge/pivot line dependant.

 

[Woodworking Chancer]

Just a thought on the doors, don't forget the radius of the opening door on the back edge when it meets the adjacent door, hinge/pivot line dependant.

This is where I show my newbie lack of knowledge. You've lost me on this one!

Are you saying 2mm gaps might be a bit too small as the door could hit the one next to it? If so, I wonder how to be sure how to work that out as Blum hinges I think have a slightly odd outwards and sideways motion at the very beginning and end of the opening (although that was me playing with some much older hinges on a kitchen).

 

[MikeJhn]

One door has a fixed dimension from the edge of the cabinet to its closed position, the door you wish to open also has a fixed dimension from its inside edge to its inner meeting edge, this has to clear the closed door outside face on a radius when being opened, on close fitting doors its normal to back taper the closing stiles to clear each other, all this depends on the thickness of the door and the hinges used.

 

[Distinterior]

One door has a fixed dimension from the edge of the cabinet to its closed position, the door you wish to open also has a fixed dimension from its inside edge to its inner meeting edge, this has to clear the closed door outside face on a radius when being opened, on close fitting doors its normal to back taper the closing stiles to clear each other, all this depends on the thickness of the door and the hinges used.

This is not an issue if you use Blum hinges as linked to by Doug71.....As the door is opened, the hinge automatically kicks the door across & out slightly within it's own width and doesn't bind with adjacent doors or filler panels.

Flush Fillers can be made up with a 2mm offset to allow for the necessary gap between them and any adjacent door.

The other thing to remember is, using this type of hinge, the rear face of the door doesn't usually sit tight up against the face of the cabinet......There is usually about a 2mm clearance. This is because the doors would preferably have little bump stops on the non hinged side and they are normally 1.5 to 2mm thick. By keeping the same gap behind the doors on the hinge side ensures all the doors and filler panels are in a nice straight line.....This may seem a bit anal to some people, but that's me!!

 

[MikeJhn]

If you use the Blum self close hinges the bump stops aren't needed.

 

[Distinterior]

If you use the Blum self close hinges the bump stops aren't needed.

" needed"...? No,....But after more than 40 years in the fitted furniture business, IMHO,...its the right way of doing it and it keeps all the doors and fascias straight & parallel with each other.

 

[MikeJhn]

Did not know the soft close self closing Blum hinges where available that long ago.

 

[Doug71]

The other thing to remember is, using this type of hinge, the rear face of the door doesn't usually sit tight up against the face of the cabinet......There is usually about a 2mm clearance. This is because the doors would preferably have little bump stops on the non hinged side and they are normally 1.5 to 2mm thick. By keeping the same gap behind the doors on the hinge side ensures all the doors and filler panels are in a nice straight line.....This may seem a bit anal to some people, but that's me!!

I often make cabinets with overlay doors which then have a bit of frame round or fillers to make them look like in frame doors.

I sometimes use 22mm MDF for the doors and 25mm MDF for the frames/fillers to allow for the door standing forwards of the carcass.