British Woodworking - Frugal woodworking.

[Nick Gibbs]

We paid Smiths to get into a set number of stores for two issues. You hope that you perform well enough that after that they keep stocking you. But whatever happens, you get none of the money back.

Of course, bigger publishing houses don't face quite the same challenges. That's one of the 'fun' bits of being small. I'm sure one day I'll look back on these early days with wistful fondness - it certainly is exciting.

Cheers

Nick

 

[frugal]

We paid Smiths to get into a set number of stores for two issues. You hope that you perform well enough that after that they keep stocking you. But whatever happens, you get none of the money back.

It sounds just like the Pay To Play problems that surround smaller bands getting live gigs.

 

[big soft moose]

Availability is all about supply and demand, I suppose. There are about 500 Smiths outlets in the UK. When we started, nearly two years ago, we were in only 100 of those because we inherited the stocking from Traditional Woodworking. We paid a lot of money to go in 200 branches last year, and we're now selling a good percentage of what we put on sale (above the market rate). By way of efficiency, sectors like woodworking are actually doing better these days because in a downturn specialist titles tend to do better than general interest magazines. But when the economy was booming the men's general interest magazines (like GQ, FHM etc...) were doing well and so they took up loads of shelf space in Smiths and our little sector got squeezed. I doubt things will reverse much, but the woodworking sector is now holding its own I believe.

There's no reason why Smiths should give us free space. They're just another business. Only by me producing a high quality magazine, and woodworkers buying it, will we be able to put pressure on Smiths to stock more in more branches. If they can make money from the magazines I sell and you buy they will stock more. But I will also have to make another big investment to go in more stores, and I'll have to hope the quality is good enough to tempt woodworkers.

One small consolation of a the weaker pound is that American magazines should become more expensive. But ultimately it all comes down to the quality of the magazines I produce, and your desire to read them.

I hope that explains it a bit.

Nick

If i want to get my (very small) local newsagent to order my copy in for me , who do they contact ? I gave them your contact details as per your signature but they said it had to be a publishing house - As I presume you are a publishing house could you give me (or post) your formal buisness name, address etc.

 

[big soft moose]

What a good example of how an originally well intended thread can go wildly off track, doesn't happen very often here so its a bit of a shame when it does.

Cheers, Ed

Yep its a shame all that had to come up - if frugal had wanted paying I'm sure he would have just contacted nick and said "oi where's my money" as he didnt its a great shame this thread decended into nick bashing.

 

[Mike-W]

I think Nick Gibbs should have a ‘big pat on the back’ for having the balls to launch his own magazine title, as he said most of the national magazines are produced by big publishing houses, they are only interested in one thing… revenue from advertising and profit, Although I don’t subscribe to British Woodworking (I should) I do see it from time to time and I believe it is a super publication, I’ve no doubt part of its strength is from having a broad base of contributors along with Nick’s excellent editing and layout skills, (and no doubt his love of woodworking).
The problem of getting shelf space in newsagents is quite common amongst the smaller publishers; this is why the publishers try there best to get you- the potential reader on board as a subscriber.
The issue of payment has always in my opinion been miss-understood; yes I can tell you the NUJ recommended rate for 1000 words a few years ago was upwards of £160 plus £60 per picture used for a magazine of this type however a pragmatic view should be taken here- I know Nicks major overheads will be the printing and distribution cost of his magazine. As he tell use he has yet to make himself wealthy from his titles. However he has a dream, let’s all hope he can make it a continuing success!
Well-done Frugal for getting your contribution published, I never forgot the thrill of first getting a picture published in my local newspaper (no fee), I have spent my last 20 years working as a photographer for Soldier Magazine hence my knowledge on this subject.


Mike

 

[TrimTheKing]

I always pick it up in WH Smiths. You can ask your local newsagent to stock it if you don't have a Smiths local

Cheers Wizer. I'll have a look tomorrow. I hope Nick pays you for helping sell his magazine :wink: .

Dave

I get mine from either WHSmith or Borders.

Davejester makes the point regarding availability of British Woodworker magazine. As far as I'm concerned, this lack of availability applies to all woody mags. I regularly go into several large newsagents (other than W H Smith in city centres) looking for magazines on any aspect of woodworking and none have been available for at least 2 years. Why is this? You can get mags on any subject under the sun but not on my favourite pastime.I buy BW and GW on subscription for this reason. When I inquire why stock isn't held, I've yet to receive a satisfactory answer.

Yours mystified,
Jim

Bloody American spell checkers. Corrected favourite for favorite! I've got to be careful of all those human spell checkers out there waiting to pounce.

Borders seem to be very good near me, they stock F&C, BWW, The Woodworker, Plans & Projects, Wood, Woodworkers Journal, various turning mags and a couple of others I have probably forgotton. Might be worth trying your local Borders.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Nick Gibbs]

If i want to get my (very small) local newsagent to order my copy in for me , who do they contact ? I gave them your contact details as per your signature but they said it had to be a publishing house - As I presume you are a publishing house could you give me (or post) your formal buisness name, address etc.

I'm just getting the right number for your newsagent to call. We are a publishing house, but we have a distributor that sorts out supply to stores. When I have the details I'll post them here. Thanks Mike W for your support. You've summed up my position pretty accurately.

Cheers

Nick

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Our distributor says that your newsagent should ask their wholesaler for British Woodworking. The wholesaler will then put in an order with our distributors, Warners. But if you have any problems do please contact me.

Nick

 

[wizer]

I have done this a few times in the past with my local news agents only once was the guy funny about it. His loss, WH Smiths got my money.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Given that this thread seems to have settled down a bit from a couple of days ago, doesn't anyone want to discuss any of the content? I have to confess I haven't actually read it all yet, just a quick skim, but it seems to me that there is a lot to get one's teeth into. C'mon guys, let's discuss substance.

Perhaps the problem is that almost everyone here is now a contributor!

The more the merrier, I say. It stops us getting stale.

S

PS I did notice that OPJ claims to have improved "my" Luthier clamp. Tosh, nonsense and poppycock. It's twice the weight.

There, that should kick it off nicely.




PPS That really is meant in a light-hearted way to illustrate the point. OK? OPJ and I regularly have conversations behind the scenes.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Fight Fight Fight!

:wink:

Mark

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Thanks, Steve.

I'd be interested to know how people think we might be able to help getting more young people woodworking. Already we've had some fantastic feedback from the issue, including one teacher who says that Jim Hooker's comments about school woodwork were spot on. A schoolboy has contacted us wanting to make his own wooden block plane.

I'm particularly interested in how we can engage with young boys. Fewer of them make things these days, and I want to see if we can provide inspiration and perhaps role models to show why it's worthwhile learning a skill like woodwork, for self-esteem and potentially for a living.

Is this something we should be discussing in the magazine?

Cheers

Nick

 

[Oryxdesign]

As an employer I'd like to know that too Nick!!
Simon

 

[TrimTheKing]

I'm particularly interested in how we can engage with young boys. ...

There's another question, what about the girls??? Maybe we need to appeal more to young ladies, I bet there are hundreds out there with great design ideas but lacking the skills and opportunities to express them.

Good Wood did a piece on a girl up my way recently, forgotten her name but she was turning multi material vases etc and getting rave reviews. I actually saw a couple of her pieces exhibited in a small independent gallery on Knutsford High St last week, so they are out there.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to discriminate against girls in any way, but if you talk to educators they'll say that one of the really big problems these days is motivating and connecting with young men. With so much focus on communication technologies, and the gradual decline of making jobs, it's been hard for boys. Academically girls tend to be ahead of boys at school, and we have to find ways of offering boys subjects they can appreciate.

There are some great projects that take young boys, mostly, aged 16-20, out into the woods, where they learn skills and develop self-confidence and a purpose in life. That's the sort of thing I'm thinking about, but in workshops.

Please don't think that I'm against girls doing woodwork. But there's a bigger issue at stake, I think.

Nick

 

[TrimTheKing]

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to discriminate against girls in any way, but if you talk to educators they'll say that one of the really big problems these days is motivating and connecting with young men. With so much focus on communication technologies, and the gradual decline of making jobs, it's been hard for boys. Academically girls tend to be ahead of boys at school, and we have to find ways of offering boys subjects they can appreciate.

There are some great projects that take young boys, mostly, aged 16-20, out into the woods, where they learn skills and develop self-confidence and a purpose in life. That's the sort of thing I'm thinking about, but in workshops.

Please don't think that I'm against girls doing woodwork. But there's a bigger issue at stake, I think.

Nick

Sorry Nick, that's not what I meant at all, just meant that youngsters in general don't seem to get the opportunities that most of us had in school. I am 32 and only did wood/metalwork for 2 years in school before they began phasing it out.

I fully understand what you are aiming at, and it's a good place to start definitely.

Cheers

Mark

 

[Nick Gibbs]

No worries. Actually, from what I see, the current Design Technology is quite good, and probably much more appropriate than the woodwork we were taught. There is more consideration for creating things. Teachers seem to agree that people who make things need to have been involved in the design stage to really feel part of the making process.

With so much very cheap furniture available these days it's very hard explaining to potential young woodworkers why they should go to the trouble of making themselves a table. I don't know how you motivate them to have a go: ideas on a postcard!

Nick

 

[Paul Chapman]

Actually, from what I see, the current Design Technology is quite good, and probably much more appropriate than the woodwork we were taught. There is more consideration for creating things. Teachers seem to agree that people who make things need to have been involved in the design stage to really feel part of the making process.

I couldn't disagree more, Nick. The trouble, it seems to me, is that all you get is a lot of fancy designs but nobody teaches the kids how to make the stuff. Most Dads don't know how to show them; the schools don't teach them; so all they have is the internet, magazines and books - and it's a hard slog that way.

Look at the tuition people like Rob (Woodbloke) are offering and how quick people learn with proper tuition. Probably has something to do with the fact that Rob used to be a school teacher teaching woodwork :-k :wink:

Glad I was taught woodworking at school......

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Don't get me wrong, Paul. It's not perfect. Somehow one has to find a balance between involvement in the whole process of design/making, and a build-up of skills. I don't think they are mutually exclusive. But there's a reason that skill-based learning has died out in schools: it wasn't working well enough, for any number of reasons (both supply and demand).

As Jim Hooker says in this issue, woodwork 30+ years ago failed most students. The people who returned to it 40 years later hadn't done much woodwork since leaving school. I don't think that justifies teaching skills that aren't going to be used.

I also think the word Design is misunderstood. I don't necessarily mean High Design. I mean, simply, having an idea of something you want to make, maybe a problem you want to solve or function to fulfill, and then the process of working out how to make that by drawing it and brainstorming some features. That's what we all do. Then you make it, using some simple skills. That way teachers can involved geometry and maths and art and other ideas, as well as teaching the basics of making skills.

Nick

 

[Paul Chapman]

Somehow one has to find a balance between involvement in the whole process of design/making, and a build-up of skills.

Yes, but nobody is doing this. Everyone seems so caught up with technology and the information super highway (whatever that is) that kids with, potentially, practical skills get left out.

There have been some interesting experiments shown on TV where kids who were classed as complete and utter failures at school and who were on the road to crime and other stuff, were given the chance to do things like bricklaying, joinery, cabinetmaking, electrical installations and the like. Suddenly they found what they were looking for and went from success to success.

Trouble is this sort of thing is totally lacking in schools - but then people who are good with manual skills have always been looked down upon in our society, mores the pity......

Cheers :wink:

Paul