British Woodworking - Frugal woodworking.

[Nick Gibbs]

I agree on most of what you say, Paul, but from what I hear and see woodwork in schools is improving again. I'm seeing a DT teacher on Monday and will bend his ear about it.

A teacher in an FE college rang us today. He confirmed everything Jim Hooker wrote, especially, he said, the poor quality of the tools. I wish we could help with this as we all know how frustrating it is to work with duff kit.

Nick

 

[Paul Chapman]

I'm seeing a DT teacher on Monday and will bend his ear about it.

Best of luck with that Nick. Keep up the good work :wink:

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[BradNaylor]

As Jim Hooker says in this issue, woodwork 30+ years ago failed most students. The people who returned to it 40 years later hadn't done much woodwork since leaving school. I don't think that justifies teaching skills that aren't going to be used.


Nick

I passed my woodwork A level almost exactly 30 years ago. I wouldn't say that the teaching of that era failed me but it was of very little relevence to most of my schoolfriends who have never picked up a plane again.

Hell, I'm a cabinetmaker and I've virtually never picked up a plane again!

Which is my point. 30 years ago woodwork teaching in schools centred solely around the use of traditional hand tools. This just as power tools were taking off in a big way. Consequently it was pretty well irrelevent to most pupils. The only people to use hand tools to any degree these days are a certain breed of hobby woodworkers. Other hobbyists, professional woodworkers and DIY enthusiasts use power tools at every opportunity.

Power tool usage is quite obviously never going to be taught in schools because of health and safety constraints. Hand tool usage is obselete and irrelevent to most people.

So where does this leave woodwork in schools?

Dead, unfortunately.

The project I made for my woodwork A level was a drinks cabinet in walnut with the corners jointed with secret mitred dovetails. All done by hand.

What a waste of bloody time!

I would teach more basic stuff in school, such as how to put a shelf up, or how to hang a door. Things that people might actually have to do one day.

Picking the correct joint for the corner of a drinks cabinet can wait until college or an apprenticeship for the ones who are so minded. And then teach them how to use dominos!

Cheers
Dan

 

[Nick Gibbs]

That's exactly our point, Dan, put with more passion! I think it's a big issue, and I suspect the skills/techniques you mention are spot on.

Nick

 

[OPJ]

There are some great projects that take young boys, mostly, aged 16-20, out into the woods, where they learn skills and develop self-confidence and a purpose in life. That's the sort of thing I'm thinking about, but in workshops.

It's interesting that mention about developing self-confidence and find a purpose in life, because that's something I was lacking through all my years at school - until I enrolled on the Carpentry course, when I really began to learn something about myself. And, with the progression on to my current Cabinet Making course, I've learned even more about who I am and, most importantly, what I am capable of (which I now believe is anything, if you'd like to know! :wink.

Even during my A-levels I felt lost and when in search of help from a Career's Adviser. Her emphasis was on getting A-levels and going to university; the suggestion of learning a practical skill never came up (probably because I have more than half a brain! :roll.

To some extent, I believe that students should be encouraged to push themselves and try to reach their academic potential... But, that path does not suit everyone - I know of a (growing) number of people now who've finished their degrees and are perhaps beginning to realise that they aren't heading down the right road...

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Sorry to contribute so often to this thread, but it's a subject that I feel very strongly about. I'm with Olly completely on this. I can understand entirely what he's saying. What has surprised me, a little, to be entirely honest, is that Olly has the makings of a really good writer, I think. His latest piece, about making cam cramps, has some great passages, even on such a mundane topic. It's not perfect, but you can notice the potential. It was very easy to edit, and he has the breadth of vision to write about much more.

I hope this doesn't appear patronising in any way. I only say it as an illustration that once you have an interest in something you never know where it might lead. Education in isolation is meaningless (for most people). As Thoreau said: "Every man needs a project." Once you have a project it can spring you off in all sorts of directions, even revealing academic abilities you'd never have been willing to imagine.

The challenge for schools is motivating students to find that project. We must support them in that endeavour. As Robert Louis Stevenson said: "An aim in life is the only fortune worth finding." Most of us woodies are very fortunate indeed to have found that aim: we can go anywhere in the world and discover timber, or designs, or tools that connect with our interest. We learn about mathematics, and art, and skills, and have to cope with failure and frustration. The big question is how we pass that baton on to future generations.

Nick

 

[DangerousDave]

This is actually turning into a really interesting thread. Dan makes a good point about the relevance of teaching kids to use hand tools. When I did my apprenticeship at the aircraft factory I spent most of my first year standing at the bench hand-filing a lump of mild steel until it was square and true, knowing that I would be pushing buttons on a CNC whenever I got to the factory floor :roll: Don't think this was a complete waste of time, I learnt how to measure and mark out properly and it gave me an appreciation of how to patiently work at something until its right.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

I agree. I think hand skills are essential, but you don't need to learn everything, nor does a student need to learn every joint. By getting a student to plane an edge for a while and cut to a line you build up mind to eye to hand skills that can be transferred to anything. They get much better at evaluating tools and wood.

We've now got a small bench in our house, scattered with a few block planes and bench planes and saws. Our daughters (10 and 12) use the planes to produce shavings for their rabbits and hamsters! They've been using the lovely new Veritas block planes, but actually prefer a very inexpensive No.4 Brook smoothing plane because the handles are easier to use for planing an edge. They are beginning to notice when a plane is sharp or blunt. I haven't taught them to sharpen yet: the recognition that a plane needs sharpening is enough for the moment.

Nick

 

[Aled Dafis]

This is actually turning into a really interesting thread. Dan makes a good point about the relevance of teaching kids to use hand tools. When I did my apprenticeship at the aircraft factory I spent most of my first year standing at the bench hand-filing a lump of mild steel until it was square and true, knowing that I would be pushing buttons on a CNC whenever I got to the factory floor :roll: Don't think this was a complete waste of time, I learnt how to measure and mark out properly and it gave me an appreciation of how to patiently work at something until its right.

Exactly right Dave, that's exactly what I try to teach my engineering classes at school, if you can mark out and measure accurately you're half way there.

Also, standing at a bench filing for a couple of lessons teaches them a lot about how working accurately and patiently, usually results in far better jobs when I come to assess them. Pupils that rush to finish before their mates, usually find that their job finds its way to the scrap bin, and that they are actually a couple of lessons behind due to having to re-make the part again and again, they learn after a couple of trips to the scrap bin that slow and steady wins the race!

Cheers

Aled

 

[Aled Dafis]

It's interesting that mention about developing self-confidence and find a purpose in life, because that's something I was lacking through all my years at school - until I enrolled on the Carpentry course, when I really began to learn something about myself. And, with the progression on to my current Cabinet Making course, I've learned even more about who I am and, most importantly, what I am capable of (which I now believe is anything, if you'd like to know! :wink.

Hear, hear.

Many of the pupils i teach are disilusioned by school, but I find that their self confidence is improved when they make something in the workshop, that actually works, and that they can be proud of, especially when I assess it as being within tolerance, and worthy of NVQ Level 2 standard.

I hope that this improved self confidence can inspire them to work better and harder, and that they can see more of a purpose to the education we give them.

Cheers

Aled

 

[wizer]

I left school the year before my GCSE's. I couldn't see the point, I had no idea what I wanted to do with myself and couldn't relate anything I was doing at school to the real world. Luckily I fell into IT, otherwise I'd probably still be labouring on a building site or working in a shop. Since I've grown up a bit I realised that I did learn stuff at school, but mostly trivia. I think they need to concentrate more on careers and try to get pupils on a career track as early as possible. When we started GCSE course work, we had a career day. They asked us what we wanted to do when we left school. You can imagine the kind of stuff we came out with? Jet Fighter, Astronaut, Prime minister. They should have sat us down and talked to us about what careers where availible, what we could achieve from the work we was doing. If I could go back I would probably go the woodworking route somehow. Anything to not work in an office!

 

[frugal]

We've now got a small bench in our house, scattered with a few block planes and bench planes and saws. Our daughters (10 and 12) use the planes to produce shavings for their rabbits and hamsters! They've been using the lovely new Veritas block planes...

Using a several hundred pound state of the art block plane to make pet bedding tickles me no end.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Using a several hundred pound state of the art block plane to make pet bedding tickles me no end.

Some people just don't appreciate the finer things in life...
S

 

[frugal]

Thinking back to my woodwork at school, it is now joining my other two bugbear subjects (music and PE) in that it was never taught, you were simply told to acheive an end and left to your own devices as to how to get there.

For woodwork we were told to told to make a pull along toy and shown where the wood was and where the tools were and then left to our own devices. Most of mine was done with my dad in the garage using his jigsaw and some rasps.

PE was the same, you were told to run 1500m around the track (painted over the football pitch in the summer), but you were never taught to run. It is only now that I have picked up running at age 35 that I have discovered that there are techniques for getting over stitch, how to improve my speed, how to control my breathing. All I was taught was that I was not able to run because I could not do it as well as the sporty kids.

My music teacher probably had the most influence over me. Auditions for the school choir were compulsory, I was selected and after a couple of rehersals I was told that I couldn't sing by the teacher. So I stopped. I did not sing at all. Not even with the radio. For twenty years. It was only last year when speaking to a good friend who is very musicial who told me: "Of course you can't sing, no one has taught you." He proved that I am not tone deaf and can sing, I just need to be taught. One comment from a teacher effectively cut me off from an activity that I could see friends enjoying around me.

Some leasons at school teach kids how to do things, a couple even teach kids how to think for themselves (if they have a good teacher), but a lot of the time all that happens is that kids are told by authority figures that they can not do things.

sorry, rant over.