British Woodworking - Frugal woodworking.

[Anonymous]

Well done Frugal. Hope this is the first of many articles from you. How about some box making?

Does anybody know where I can buy the mag on the high street? Is it in WhSmiths?

Dave

 

[woodbloke]

I think that this thread is getting a bit off-topic. Let me make it perfectly clear: Nick never made any suggestion that any notes or photos would be paid for. I never made any demand on Nick that I be paid for them. I never made any suggestions that I was expecting to get paid.

I sent a set of notes in stream of conciousness format because that was the only way that I could see to set the scene for someone who had not been present to enable them to write an article. I set no expectations on Nick that I was writing article rather than simply giving him what he kindly asked for in order to write his article.

I am incredibly flattered that Nick thought what I had produced was good enough to be published.

My own 2 euros, for what it's worth. It's clear that there was never any monitory transaction between Frugal and GW and that's a private arrangement 'twixt the two of them. From my own point of view, anyone who takes the time and effort (and it's considerable...I know from my submissions to F&C) to have an article published in a national magazine ought to recompensed in some way, after all BW will have have had 'something for nothing'...a genuine 'win-win' situation (even if Nick spent some time tweaking it, as is usually the case, but as the ed, that's his job)
I bet David Savage got the going rate for his article...so ought you - Rob

 

[lurker]

Why are people raining on Frugal's parade??

The bloke was excited to get credit for the article and see his name in glossy print (as would I have been) why must we bring it down to a sordid discussion about the root of all evil??

Well done Frugal, =D> =D> =D> Twas a different & interesting article; I hope it spurs you on to more.

 

[Gower]

In order to lighten up this post (I'm sure Frugal intended his post to be lighthearted) let me tell you that I got it in the neck from my dear wife for sending a photograph of her woodcarving in the kitchen to BW (The Forum, page 9) without her permission. She's told me to expect legal action and the withdrawal of certain rights (whatever that means!).
Cheers,
Jim
:shock:

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Thanks, Frugal and Chisel.

Tony, what have I done to deserve this sort of comment? I just don't get it. Undermining my relationship with contributors and potential contributors is pretty unhelpful. I cannot afford to pay people much, and other magazines may pay more, but most people who contribute to British Woodworking or Living Woods seem to appreciate the efforts we take to present their work well, and to build an on-going relationship. If payment is indeed 'the icing on the cake' (as you said elsewhere in this thread) why did you also ask Frugal, 'More importantly, when do you get paid'?

And, Woodbloke, payment doesn't always have to be monetary. I have contributors who write for nothing or very little, including, actually, David Savage for the first few issues of British Woodworking, because they understand what I am trying to do and recognise the challenges. They enjoy our working relationship, are investing in the hopeful success of my magazines, and like the idea of getting published.

If you have to know, I have yet to see a penny come my way, indeed I've risked most of my savings. I don't say that to complain, and I know that one day Freshwood Publishing will be providing a brilliant range of magazines, websites and other media for woodworkers, and making those of us who work for it a bit of an income. But those days are some way off yet (although I think our magazines are pretty good already), and we will still have to rely on the kindness and enthusiasm of people like Frugal to survive for a while. That's what community is about, I think, and let's face it, the focus on money has hardly put our society in a strong position today.

Thanks to everyone who's helped so far in any number of ways. Please make sure I know if you feel in the slightest bit cheated.

Nick

 

[woodbloke]

Why are people raining on Frugal's parade??

The bloke was excited to get credit for the article and see his name in glossy print (as would I have been) why must we bring it down to a sordid discussion about the root of all evil??

Well done Frugal, =D> =D> =D> Twas a different & interesting article; I hope it spurs you on to more.

Not doing anything of the sort...just my point of view. The article was very good (I had no idea what these sort of things are like...I expected to see Martin in one of the pics :lol: ) and it's always, always, pleasant to see your stuff in print.
It's even nicer though, to get paid for it :wink: - Rob

 

[wizer]

Nick's the only Magazine editor that comes on here to stick up for his own magazine and even join in with discussion. He's published a good few of our members work who otherwise wouldn't have been noticed. Sometimes people are happy with just having their name in print. I'm sure if Frugal wants to go on and write a full blown article, things would be different. As I said earlier, what I recall of the post, Nick openly ask for people's views and a couple of pics, not for an article to be written. As Frugal says, he didn't spent much time on it, it was merely an account of what he saw. Let's not all bash Nick for producing what most of us agree is a top rate magazine and he's risking his livelihood to do it.

So again, well done Frugal.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Not doing anything of the sort...just my point of view. The article was very good (I had no idea what these sort of things are like...I expected to see Martin in one of the pics :lol: ) and it's always, always, pleasant to see your stuff in print.
It's even nicer though, to get paid for it :wink: - Rob

Make up your mind, Rob. One minute you're saying he ought (in bold) to be paid, the next you're saying it's just 'nicer'. And 'my point of view' is still a point of view; it is still a comment, an observation, call it what you will. What other kind of point of view is there?

Nick

 

[Anonymous]

If you have to know, I have yet to see a penny come my way

Well maybe it would help if you told me where I could buy a copy on the high street! I want to buy! buy! buy! Not a subscription. Not something that comes through the post (or more likely gets lost in the post). Just a single copy of British Woodworking...in my hand....today. Please!

Dave

 

[wizer]

If you have to know, I have yet to see a penny come my way

Well maybe it would help if you told me where I could buy a copy on the high street! I want to buy! buy! buy! Not a subscription. Not something that comes through the post (or more likely gets lost in the post). Just a single copy of British Woodworking...in my hand....today. Please!

Dave

I always pick it up in WH Smiths. You can ask your local newsagent to stock it if you don't have a Smiths local

 

[woodbloke]

Not doing anything of the sort...just my point of view. The article was very good (I had no idea what these sort of things are like...I expected to see Martin in one of the pics :lol: ) and it's always, always, pleasant to see your stuff in print.
It's even nicer though, to get paid for it :wink: - Rob

Make up your mind, Rob. One minute you're saying he ought (in bold) to be paid, the next you're saying it's just 'nicer'. And 'my point of view' is still a point of view; it is still a comment, an observation, call it what you will. What other kind of point of view is there?

Nick

This is a personal view point. In this particular instance there was no payment made for the article which is fair enough, it's a private matter between you and the individual. If it were me, I'd expect to at least to see something for my efforts, apart from my name in a national mag.
I've just had another look at the piece and it starts with the intro "...we sent Chris 'Frugal' Ward to Pughs"...which I immediately understood to mean that BW had commissioned a piece from Chris, so I made the assumption (and did the first time I read it) that Chris had been paid for the copy he sent in to you.
As I said, in this particular instance there appeared to be no payment which is fine if both parties are happy with that arrangement, it's just if I submit copy to a magazine I'd expect to be paid for it. I think my position is clear on this one and I'll comment no further - Rob

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Well maybe it would help if you told me where I could buy a copy on the high street! I want to buy! buy! buy! Not a subscription. Not something that comes through the post (or more likely gets lost in the post). Just a single copy of British Woodworking...in my hand....today. Please!

Dave

I didn't mean to imply no money has come our way! It looks rather ungrateful as a quote on its own like that!

What's your postcode? With that I can find you a local stockist. I like buying mags from newsagents too, so I know how you feel.

Cheers

Nick

 

[Anonymous]

I always pick it up in WH Smiths. You can ask your local newsagent to stock it if you don't have a Smiths local

Cheers Wizer. I'll have a look tomorrow. I hope Nick pays you for helping sell his magazine :wink: .

Dave

 

[Oryxdesign]

I'd be happy to be in it for free, rewards don't always come in the form of dirty notes.
Great job Frugal and Nick.

 

[TheDudester]

Hi Rob

Your latest blog article made for interesting reading

Regards

D

 

[Mr Ed]

What a good example of how an originally well intended thread can go wildly off track, doesn't happen very often here so its a bit of a shame when it does.

Cheers, Ed

 

[Gower]

Davejester makes the point regarding availability of British Woodworker magazine. As far as I'm concerned, this lack of availability applies to all woody mags. I regularly go into several large newsagents (other than W H Smith in city centres) looking for magazines on any aspect of woodworking and none have been available for at least 2 years. Why is this? You can get mags on any subject under the sun but not on my favourite pastime.I buy BW and GW on subscription for this reason. When I inquire why stock isn't held, I've yet to receive a satisfactory answer.

Yours mystified,
Jim

Bloody American spell checkers. Corrected favourite for favorite! I've got to be careful of all those human spell checkers out there waiting to pounce.

 

[Nick Gibbs]

Availability is all about supply and demand, I suppose. There are about 500 Smiths outlets in the UK. When we started, nearly two years ago, we were in only 100 of those because we inherited the stocking from Traditional Woodworking. We paid a lot of money to go in 200 branches last year, and we're now selling a good percentage of what we put on sale (above the market rate). By way of efficiency, sectors like woodworking are actually doing better these days because in a downturn specialist titles tend to do better than general interest magazines. But when the economy was booming the men's general interest magazines (like GQ, FHM etc...) were doing well and so they took up loads of shelf space in Smiths and our little sector got squeezed. I doubt things will reverse much, but the woodworking sector is now holding its own I believe.

There's no reason why Smiths should give us free space. They're just another business. Only by me producing a high quality magazine, and woodworkers buying it, will we be able to put pressure on Smiths to stock more in more branches. If they can make money from the magazines I sell and you buy they will stock more. But I will also have to make another big investment to go in more stores, and I'll have to hope the quality is good enough to tempt woodworkers.

One small consolation of a the weaker pound is that American magazines should become more expensive. But ultimately it all comes down to the quality of the magazines I produce, and your desire to read them.

I hope that explains it a bit.

Nick

 

[wizer]

I don't subscribe to any and I often miss an issue of the other mags because I forget to go or am too busy. I suggest those who can't get BWW regularly in a local shop, subscribe. It's a bit cheaper for you and it comes straight to your door. With it being Bi-Monthly, you don't have a big outlay.

 

[cambournepete]

...We paid a lot of money to go in 200 branches last year,...

I never realised you paid them to sell your product - that sounds ridiculous! I'm glad I subscribe.

Pete
(wishing he could string enough words together in a sensible order to send to a magazine ...)