British Saws

[Sawyer]

I'm after a couple of decent backsaws and inclined to buy British. Specifically, a 15 tpi. crosscut, 10 or 12 inches and a rip, around 12 tpi. as long as possible.

It seems to me that all good British saws now originate from the same factory in Sheffield, via Thos. Flinn & Co., including it would seem, Axminster's Victor range. I don't care too much about the handle as it's quite easy to make or adapt handles oneself, and have no problems doing my own sharpening.

To put it another way; what matters is the steel. Is there any real benefit in paying the considerable extra for the (gorgeous) Pax 1776, or would I just be paying a premium for the name and a nice handle?

If the actual steel is no different, I might just as well pay about half the price for a Victor, Lynx or Roberts & Lee and fettle it myself?

Cheaper still, the Axminster Benchcraft, whose blade looks identical to a Victor, even down to the etching on the blade.

Veritas backsaws seem good value, but appear to have a plastic back, which somehow doesn't appeal. Lie-Nielson look great, but a tad expensive, especially as I want two.

Is there any real difference between Victor, Lynx, Roberts & Lee and Pax? Any recommendations?

 

[matthewwh]

There are differences in spec between the different brands offfered by Thomas Flinn.

Buy a 1776 and the spine will have been hand polished and engraved, the teeth hand filed and the handle hand shaped and finished from selected elm - none of which come cheap these days. Buy a bottom of the range one and it won't have any of the above but it will certainly still cut wood. The steel used for the blades is all CS80. There are some behind the scenes photos of the factory here if you fancy a nose about.

If you intend to make your own handle you might consider Atkinson Walker's No.168 kits which come with full instructions, downloadable handle templates (beautifully drawn by Aiden) and the appropriate Bahco saw file.

I slope sharpened (20 deg slope, no rake, no fleam) one of the Atkinson Walker dovetail saws for a customer this morning. Took it for a spin and it's an absolute dream to start, cuts smoothly, quickly, and as straight as a plumb line, what more could you want.

 

[marcus]

All the saws mentioned are completely capable of doing the job and doing it well. By going for the premium model you get something that works a little better and looks a lot nicer. It's not at all necessary, but it's very nice to have if you can afford it!

BTW it's a personal thing, but when I was buying tenon saws a few years ago I bought a 12" cross cut and have wished ever since I chose a 10"....

 

[Scouse]

For what it's worth, LN's are absolutely superb, expensive sure, but for me they were worth every penny.

Having said that, I had a go of an Axminster Victor at their new Warrington store a week or two ago; I was expecting a Far Eastern inferior product and was pleasantly surprised to see it was from Sheffield. Admittedly it was one of the larger rip hand saws, but it seemed like a decent saw for the money.

 

[pedder]

There are some behind the scenes photos of the factory here if you fancy a nose about.

Hi Matthew,

thank you for this.

It makes pretty clear what Thos. Flinn does mean when they call their saws "taper ground". For sure it is not the same old Henry D. meant.

Cheers Pedder

 

[bugbear]

I can't get onto your site at all.

http://www.workshopheaven.com/

gives:

Error 403 - Forbidden

You tried to access a document for which you don't have privileges.

BugBear

 

[Alf]

Ah, I was just about to enquire if anyone else was having trouble getting onto WSH. Website upgrade in progress, perhaps?

Interesting pics of Thos. Flinn's factory, Matthew. I'd quite like to sabotage their gold leaf applying machine though; it always looks so tacky to me. But there we are, s'just me I expect.

 

[matthewwh]

Sorry folks, the site should be up again shortly. We moved it onto a higer-spec, super-duper, lightning-fast server last week that turned out to be slower than the one we were on before, so it's currently beaming itself back to it's original home.

I just hope I still have some hair left by the time the new website is completed...!

 

[matthewwh]

Interesting comment Pedder, please excuse my ignorance - I'm not that into Disstons (other than wishing they were still manufacturing).

An excerpt from their 1932 catalogue reads:

Thin back, true-taper ground by a new Disston process. Tooth edge is the same gauge throughout; blade tapers evenly from butt to point and from tooth edge to back, making a fast, smooth, easy-cutting saw.

How is this different?

 

[bugbear]

I'd quite like to sabotage their gold leaf applying machine though; it always looks so tacky to me. But there we are, s'just me I expect.

Gold blocked lettering is a lot more acceptable than gold plated taps!

BugBear

 

[Alf]

Have I some reputation I know not of for having gold plated taps? It's not true! It doesn't help with the thread cutting at all...

Matthew, fingers crossed for you on the website stuff. Stressful business.

 

[pedder]

Interesting comment Pedder, please excuse my ignorance - I'm not that into Disstons (other than wishing they were still manufacturing).

An excerpt from their 1932 catalogue reads:

Thin back, true-taper ground by a new Disston process. Tooth edge is the same gauge throughout; blade tapers evenly from butt to point and from tooth edge to back, making a fast, smooth, easy-cutting saw.

How is this different?

Hi Matthew,

I might be wrong, but the picture gives me the impression, that only the upper edge is tapered.

When old Henry lived the saws are tapered in a different way, and many (me too) believes that they didn't improve after 1932.

Cheers
Pedder

 

[matthewwh]

I had to phone a friend on this one!

Six shaped and hardened sawplates are stuck to the magnetic chuck (the bed) of the table and ground flat to clean up the blued surface from the hardening process.

The bed traverses steadily from left to right and the 6" wide grinding wheel slowly moves in and out so that in one complete cycle of the machine the entire bed surface has been under the wheel.

The plates are then flipped over and carefully shimmed under the back edge before the cycle is repeated.

Result, fully tapered sawblades from the back to the teeth, if the tapering started part way up the blade it wouldn't provide any benefit.

 

[pedder]

Hi Matthew,

I stand corrected. Thank you for the answer.

Btw, the blue color from the tempering vanishes with any mild acid.

Cheers
Pedder

 

[Crooked Tree]

In partial answer to the original post, I have the Lynx brand tenon saws and like them. I have not used the others on your list, but they compare well with the selection of rather older saws that I have used (various makes, some unknown). They have not needed sharpening yet, although one needed a new handle (warranty job, no problems) because after a while it could not be tightened sufficiently to prevent movement. They are 12" long and I find this a wieldy length for me - balance about right.

 

[Sawyer]

Thanks for the helpful contributions. I'll probably end up going for Lynx or Victor and doing my own fettling.

For the record, my main backsaw is a 12", 12 tpi. Footprint, which has given 25 years of sterling service and holds its sharpness well. I sharpened it last week and it's as good as new (better in fact as originally, it was only machine sharpened from the factory).

I recently bought a Victor panel saw from Axminster, which is quite impressive: skew-backed, taper ground, properly bevel-sharpened and even - breasted. A rather lumpish handle, but I just treated that as a beech blank to refine into a nice handle. I've now done so and the saw looks quite classic and cuts beautifully.

Also in regular use for 25 years, have been my Roberts & Lee Parkstone rip & dovetail saws and a Nonpareil (Tyzack) crosscut, a cheaper Spear & Jackson panel saw and a Footprint crosscut. I have an aversion to disposable hardpoint saws, except for chipboard, or cutting near walls, nails &c.

Recently, I rescued a fine Spear & Jackson, 28", 3 1/2 tpi rip. Blunt and rusty, but straight as a die. From style, I'd guess it's pre-war. Anybody got any tips on how to assess date?

Also, any thoughts on de-rusting? After wire brushing, it's pitted, but not too badly. I've heard that Coke or Pepsi dissolve rust?

 

[Harbo]

Citric acid
I use Milk Stone Remover from my local Agricultural Suppliers - a cheap source of Phosphoric acid.
I think you can get it on EBay too?
Workshop Heaven sell a range of rust remover items .

Rod

 

[Sawyer]

Recently, I rescued a fine Spear & Jackson, 28", 3 1/2 tpi rip. Blunt and rusty, but straight as a die.

I've now restored this and it's a beaut! Obviously good steel because a brand new saw file is now looking decidedly tired!

In fact, it's been an interesting experience, because it's quite different to using any of my other saws. My other trusty rip, a Roberts & Lee, 26", 4 tpi, bought new circa 1986 would probably have been classed as an 'half rip' in the old days, whereas the latest acquisition is evidently 'the full monty'. By comparison with other saws, the 28", coarse S&J encourages a longer but slower stroke. Less perspiration than I was expecting though, even on a 2 1/2" plank, which it cuts easily and dead straight.

Despite its former neglected state, I could tell it was a good 'un as soon as I picked it up. Quite a bit of work to bring it back from the dead, but well worthwhile.

 

[RB61]

Based on my inexperience with the Queen's English, you will soon discover that I am not from your side of the pond. I hope that I will be allowed to participate anyway. I am very new to the craft and I am finding it to be very satisfying.

I contacted the manufacturer of Pax and Lynx saws a few weeks ago. I want to buy a panel saw and their prices fit my budget. The email reply was from a marketing person and she did not answer my main questions. I am hoping that members of this forum can help.

Most people that voice and opinion on these saws (US woodworking forums) seem to dismiss the quality of these saws completely. It appears as if the joinery saws have a much better reputation.

How does the typical UK woodworker feel about PAX an Lynx panel saws?
How do Lynx and PAX compare to each other based on performance?
Any recommendations for other non-Japanese hand saws?

Great web site.
Thanks,

Ray

 

[yetloh]

Veritas backsaws seem good value, but appear to have a plastic back, which somehow doesn't appeal. Lie-Nielson look great, but a tad expensive, especially as I want two.

But they do feel absolutely beautiful in the hand. Much nicer than the top of the range Pax from Flinn, in my opinion.

Jim