Bringing goods from the EU

[Rorschach]

I just wondered if anyone expects there to be a point in the whole Brexit issue being replayed in this thread where consensus prevails?

Anyone who voted Brexit feels they were right and the current issues will bed in and life will go on. The Remainers see it as a self inflicted wound that will blight us for ever. Anyone saying to someone in the other camp words to the effect of “that’s a fair point” is rarer than rocking horse manure ... I just wondered if anyone expects it to change or just ramble on for ever?

It probably won't change.

FWIW I don't necessarily think Brexit is right, it was just right for me and my views, I can also see why it was right to vote remain for others. It may turn out to be a bad decision in which case if we have another referendum and try and re-join then I would vote for that. When I cast my vote I could see the argument from both side but on balance I felt a change was needed, it will probably be a good 10 years before I will be able to make a decision on whether I was right to vote that way or not. Just like voting for a government this is not a permanent decision, after all the vote to remain in the EEC was clearly not permanent either. We did a 40 year experiment and now we are going to try another. Saying we couldn't re-join is nonsense because we could if we wanted to and saying we wouldn't get as good a deal is also nonsense as we have no idea what the situation will be in 10-20 years time, we might get a better deal, or the same deal, you never know and who is to say the EU will still exist in 20 years time? A week is long time in politics, 20 years is several lifetimes by comparison.

 

[Noho12C]

It applies to every transaction - go into a pub and "they take your money and give it back to you" (as beer), or a shop, ditto and you come out with the Daily Mail and a loaf of bread.

Do you need to pay to get the Daily Mail ?!

 

[Jacob]

Do you need to pay to get the Daily Mail ?!

Hypothetical. Not me personally I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole!

 

[John Brown]

I expect it to rumble on forever.
Although I do know one person who voted to leave, and soon afterwards decided it was a big mistake, he isn't remotely interested in woodworking.

 

[sploo]

What will happen now is that the civil servants on both sides will get to work and tidy up after them as they always do. I remain quite confident that over time things will get tweaked and finessed as necessary, and in a few years time we will probably be left wondering why we made such a song and dance about it.

We (as in "the nation") will definitely get all the paperwork faff sorted out in time, and I'm sure imports and exports from/to the EU will end up being no more onerous than, say, the US. The problem is; that's still far more onerous (and expensive) than it was before - so those additional costs will be permanent. Also permanent are the losses to freedom of movement, the negative impacts to joint funding for research projects, and, assuming the Tories can work it out (now that they're somewhat free of EU influence) a steady degradation of our rights, and likely more selling off of the NHS.

 

[nabs]

What will happen now is that the civil servants on both sides will get to work and tidy up after them as they always do. I remain quite confident that over time things will get tweaked and finessed as necessary, and in a few years time we will probably be left wondering why we made such a song and dance about it.

this misses the point that some of these changes are structural and will have a permanent effect on the UK export trade and the supply chains that depend on it. Yes in many cases the costs created by the new trade barriers we have just put up between us and the EU will either be absorbed as reduced profit margins or passed on to consumers as price increases, but the more fundamental change will be to those export business with low margins where EU trade no longer makes sense and to those businesses who lose EU customers because they've conclude it is easier/cheaper to buy from other member states.

We are only just beginning to see the impacts of this huge change and it will have ripple effects for years. The same will happen in reverse as we implement our import controls in July. Last year we did about £20 billion of trade with the EU per day so this is quite a big deal.

 

[doctor Bob]

Had to revisit this it kept me awake last night!

Sorry to here this.
I'd honestly say that losing sleep for the sake of an internet thread is not worth it.
It's an interesting thread but the true reality is it's just a group of nobodies whinging between themselves.
Your views however well thought, have no impact on anyone else.
Take a break, get some sleep.

 

[selectortone]

D_W wrote:
....not to be confused with Coronation Chicken, which is a different kettle of fish entirely.

Or Bombay duck. Will no one think of the poor ducks!!

 

[Jacob]

Sorry to here this.
I'd honestly say that losing sleep for the sake of an internet thread is not worth it.
It's an interesting thread but the true reality is it's just a group of nobodies whinging between themselves.
Your views however well thought, have no impact on anyone else.
Take a break, get some sleep.

It was only a few minutes. Once I'd come up with the obvious answer I nodded off! Thanks for your concern, I might just have a little nap later.

 

[Noel]

Could the EU have given us a very favourable deal, yes, there was no physical obstacle to that. Were they ever going to, no. They clearly couldn't give us all the benefits of full membership and waive the membership fee, that would be completely daft from their point of view, and a completely unreasonable expectation from ours. What we have now is something that has enabled the politicians on both sides to strut their stuff and, in their eyes at least, satisfy their respective audiences. What will happen now is that the civil servants on both sides will get to work and tidy up after them as they always do. I remain quite confident that over time things will get tweaked and finessed as necessary, and in a few years time we will probably be left wondering why we made such a song and dance about it.

How do you think the EU could " have given us a very favourable deal"? How would that have been possible within the confines of SM/CU/TEU etc?

 

[McAldo]

I have just looked at this thread for the first time as I have shipping issue, however, this is from the UK to Switzerland (not EU). I bought a small item at auction at the start of the week (pocket watch). I have been trying to find a carrier to pack and ship the thing for me. Most are not interested (refusing even to make an offer because of the Brexit situation). It seems the issue at the UK border goes beyond the Brexit change!

Today DPD returned to me a package meant to a friend in Italy, for the second time..
When that happened the first time, one week ago, their customer service were very apologetic and also said there was no reason on file for the parcel to have been stopped before even leaving the UK, and that they were happy to either refund me or pick it up again,
Having opted for the latter, and rated them 1 star on trust pilot pending succesfull delivery, they got back to me explaining that unfortunately the package was being returned once again, and it was a widespread problem related to Brexit, affecting manydeliveries over the last month or so.
However, they also mentioned this should now be solved.
So I am trying again..

The delivery driver for my area is always the same and after the second return apparently assumed I was some trader in the habit to ship defective items

 

[nabs]

How do you think the EU could " have given us a very favourable deal"? How would that have been possible within the confines of SM/CU/TEU etc?

edit to fix quoting
that's right Noel. The EU gave us exactly the deal Johnson asked for, namely a basic FTA. It was this governments decision to leave both the customs union and the single market, not the EUs.

 

[McAldo]

That is probably the whole reason why the negotiation needed to be so tough. This was not only about Brexit, it needed to (and will) set an example of what will happen when people leave.

That is one way of seeing it, but not necessarily a perfect description of the situation.
When work got in the way of me attending sessions at my turning club, I notified the president that unfortunately it made little sense for me to remain a member.
I was reassured that I would anyway be welcome to attend sessions whenever I could, for a fee at the door, but other activities such as trips to show, socials and similar, were reserved to members only.
If I were a certain kind of person, I could have thought, or even argued, that it was probably some evil ploy to teach me a lesson and encourage other members not to leave the club. People reasoning like that about every day life and ordinary things are rare I think, but in life you meet all sorts.
But how would that reasoning sit with the club members?
They made the club so to help each other, enjoy each other company, and access activities that would be very hard to organize on a regular basis as a bunch of unconnected woodworkers.
Of course the implications of that is also that the benefits are only for members. And that the activities work accordingly to the club. I cannot have my own favourite time for demonstrations, restrict them to bowls work only, demand that it all reflects my own spin on woodturning.
And if I demand for my suggestions to be heard as a non member, that might well fall on deaf ears.
But does that really happen because I am being punished?
Are we, non members, the very center of the club's concerns?

I found it interesting that, when applying so called common sense to their normal life, activities and social activities, people come up with conclusions completely different than their opinion about politics, international trade and so forth.

 

[MarkDennehy]

I hear Amazon are going to open a fulfilment facility somewhere, did you hear where Mark? Amazon.ie ?

Amazon eyeing first fulfilment centre in Dublin got announced this morning...

 

[D_W]

Today DPD returned to me a package meant to a friend in Italy, for the second time..
When that happened the first time, one week ago, their customer service were very apologetic and also said there was no reason on file for the parcel to have been stopped before even leaving the UK, and that they were happy to either refund me or pick it up again,
Having opted for the latter, and rated them 1 star on trust pilot pending succesfull delivery, they got back to me explaining that unfortunately the package was being returned once again, and it was a widespread problem related to Brexit, affecting manydeliveries over the last month or so.
However, they also mentioned this should now be solved.
So I am trying again..

The delivery driver for my area is always the same and after the second return apparently assumed I was some trader in the habit to ship defective items

Sounds like they had some problem and didn't want to admit it, so they blamed it on brexit.

 

[MarkDennehy]

Last time I checked the UK government doesn't stick signs on roads saying they paid for them. I know my government pays for stuff, that's where my taxes go.

That is an amount of faith most Irish people do not possess about their government.
We have learned over the years that taxes are money and money has a habit of not always going to where we think it needs to go for projects that make our lives better.

Also, the whole "they took your money and gave it back to you and expect you to feel grateful" idea is a category error. The point of the signs is not to say "the germans and french and british and italians paid for your road" (though that's true, because EU structural funding is a bootstrap process which caters to people who don't have boots), the point is to say "these are the projects we prioritise, this is what we do", in comparison to some of our leaders who can point to vast private estates owned by leaders who were not being paid enough money to buy those estates when asked about their priorities.

 

[Droogs]

It probably won't change.

FWIW I don't necessarily think Brexit is right, it was just right for me and my views, I can also see why it was right to vote remain for others. It may turn out to be a bad decision in which case if we have another referendum and try and re-join then I would vote for that. When I cast my vote I could see the argument from both side but on balance I felt a change was needed, it will probably be a good 10 years before I will be able to make a decision on whether I was right to vote that way or not. Just like voting for a government this is not a permanent decision, after all the vote to remain in the EEC was clearly not permanent either. We did a 40 year experiment and now we are going to try another. Saying we couldn't re-join is nonsense because we could if we wanted to and saying we wouldn't get as good a deal is also nonsense as we have no idea what the situation will be in 10-20 years time, we might get a better deal, or the same deal, you never know and who is to say the EU will still exist in 20 years time? A week is long time in politics, 20 years is several lifetimes by comparison.

Very commendable Rorschach, of course to say this island couldn't rejoin is nonsense. So is you next sentence, no member of the EU will allow this country to rejoin and wield the same level of obstructionist power that we just relinquished. We will never be given a veto power within the EU ever again, it is not worth the problems caused to everyone else as our past and present behaviour has emphatically proven. Also given recent events, I would postulate that it in fact more likely that the UK will not exist in 20 years time as two of its constituent parts have a population that is increasing in size as more of the young come to voting age, that the standard belief is it will be better to either be independant and an EU member for the scots and to possibly also reunifiy for the N. Irish. The political structure within the provences even though deliberately designed to deny that coming majority a voice will not be able to stop it. Brexit will be its catalyst and its champion.

I say the above with a very heavy heart as I have been a staunch unionist my entire life. No more, recent events have totally stripped me of all belief in the UKs greatest lie prermeated at all levels "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori". Or to go hungry for or to go naked for or to go peniless for and above all to suffer for the lies of swindlers, theives and liars.

 

[doctor Bob]

It was only a few minutes. Once I'd come up with the obvious answer I nodded off! Thanks for your concern, I might just have a little nap later.

Can the nurses in the facility give you some medication, or try and bribe the security guard to get you something. Those secure facilities for nutters are rife with underhand transactions

 

[RobinBHM]

Or Bombay duck. Will no one think of the poor ducks!!

Bombay duck was banned by the EU back in 1977

Now there's a potential Brexit bonus......we can now eat something called a duck that is actually more akin to the health standards of road kill

 

[RobinBHM]

Sorry to here this.
I'd honestly say that losing sleep for the sake of an internet thread is not worth it.
It's an interesting thread but the true reality is it's just a group of nobodies whinging between themselves.
Your views however well thought, have no impact on anyone else.
Take a break, get some sleep.

I can't help thinking Jacob has a full size effigy of Corbyn in his bedroom.....with a plaque on the base with the inscription "we almost won"