Box Joints

[DFC1047]

Hi,
I have a number of drawers to make, using 10 mm ply, and am going to experiment and try and use box joints on them. ( Virtual Newbie )
Initially I had thought of using a dado head on my table saw, but it would appear that general opinion is that a router is the better/safer option. I have seen the jig used for such use on this forum and the jig made by Steve Maskery on YouTube. I intend using one, after I have made it.
Which router bit would be the best to use ?
I have a couple of 1/4 inch routers, the newest of which is a Dewalt D26203.

 

[kinsella]

I opted for a table saw version, even though i have a router table. I think the table saw is the quickest way. See page 5 in the link below for my version.

box-joint-jig-sketchup-plans-free-of-charge-t87240-60.html

 

[DFC1047]

Hi,
thanks for the input. I'm sure I've seen something similar on maybe youtube, but in my mind I think the router way would be the most accurate.

 

[mailee]

I use an upcut spiral bit in my router table when I make finger joints. I should point out though that if you are making them in ply you will get a lot of tear out unless you install sacrificial boards front and back. In this case I would have thought the table saw jig is the one to use. JMHO. :wink:

 

[custard]

Whenever you're cutting something "splintery" and prone to break out, like plywood, then the spiral bit is your best friend. It has a shearing or slicing cut, which really helps. Up cut is the type of spiral bit you need, because that will clear the waste out of the finger joints, a down cut spiral bit would leave a slightly cleaner top surface but it would be trying to pack the waste down into the finger joints.

http://www.wealdentool.com/acatalog/Onl ... t_229.html

Solid carbide spiral bits aren't cheap, but they last a long, long time. If you're not in the business of long production runs then a decent carbide spiral bit might even outlast your router!

If you can't run to carbide spiral bits then high speed steel two flute cutters can be sharpened up with credit card sized diamond stones to much finer edges than you'll ever get with carbide. The problem is HSS wouldn't last two minutes on ply because of the blunting effect of the glue. So not relevant for this job but bear HSS in mind in the future for tricky hardwood and softwood cuts.


Good luck.

 

[monkeybiter]

I should point out though that if you are making them in ply you will get a lot of tear out In this case I would have thought the table saw jig is the one to use. JMHO. :wink:

+1 I made four ply drawers for the workshop with finger joints all round, accuracy was fine too.

 

[Benchwayze]

I made box-jointed drawers in plywood, using a 'wobble-saw', and a jig on a Coronet Major saw table attachment. (You can guess how long ago that was!). They worked fine, but I did take the precaution of sinking dowels into the joints at each corner, (top and bottom) to resist the pulling forces of using the drawer.


HTH

 

[DFC1047]

Hmmmm!!
So to summarize all the above:
1) If I am using plywood , then a carbide bit would be required ( it would appear also that for 10mm slots I need a 1/2 inch router for a 10mm bit )
2) Using the TS and jig would be a better option.

 

[DFC1047]

No-one mentions dado cutters in the above posts.
On looking at the various jigs for this enterprise, the use of dado cutters seems a lot simpler, in terms of jig making. More or less the same as for the router jig method.
I do have a set of dado cutters which are similar to the ones shown in this video.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-cQeb130P4

Any comments ?

 

[Eric The Viking]

Hmmmm!!
So to summarize all the above:
1) If I am using plywood , then a carbide bit would be required ( it would appear also that for 10mm slots I need a 1/2 inch router for a 10mm bit )
2) Using the TS and jig would be a better option.

[EDIT] YOU HAVE A DADO SET !!![/EDIT]

If it'll do the right width, I'd use that!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

[probably ignore this bit below]

Not quite.

• The jig for a router table is easy to make (e.g. Steve M.'s one, which is a branch off a well-travelled road).
• There are inevitable tearout problems with that approach. You can minimise the tearout with a spiral cutter ("upcut" probably), and these are usually solid carbide and expensive. A sacrificial piece also helps the tearout.
• Because of the way the cut is made a table saw won't have the same tearout problem (on one side, at least), BUT
  you either need a fairly complex jig or a dado set or a wobble-washer set, and you may have fewer choices of finger/slot sizes. The last two may be unavailable for your saw (uncommon nowadays in Europe, because of H+S stringencies in commercial workshops - NOT illegal though).

If you have a router table, it's relatively quick to make up a box joint sled (jig). Personally I'd try that first, and get a spiral cutter if you find you're happy with the idea (every cutter is different so the jig may need tuning when you change the cutter even if they're nominally identical).

If it's good enough...

 

[Racers]

I made some big draws in 12mm birch ply just using biscuits and they are holding up fine.
Box joints seem a little over the top IMHO.

Pete

 

[custard]

No-one mentions dado cutters in the above posts.
On looking at the various jigs for this enterprise, the use of dado cutters seems a lot simpler, in terms of jig making. More or less the same as for the router jig method.
I do have a set of dado cutters which are similar to the ones shown in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-cQeb130P4

Any comments ?

Then you're golden!

 

[DFC1047]

Never considered biscuits !!! , that would be much quicker.
More thought needed, although I think now that jig and dado has to be tried at least .

 

[custard]

Never considered biscuits !!!

Think in terms of expected service life. It's only a guesstimate but it helps clarify your thinking, assuming decent glue and technique,

Traditional dovetails, 200 years?

Finger joints, 40 years?

Biscuits, 10 years?

 

[Racers]

The ones I did have been going strong in my sons bedroom for 15 or so years, 3 draws are 1 meter wide 2 300mm high and one 450mm high and 3 the same heights but 600mm wide.
They all have 3 No10 biscuits in the side joints and the bottoms are 6mm birch ply glued into the groves.

I wouldn't hesitate to do them the same way again.

Pete

 

[sploo]

Think in terms of expected service life. It's only a guesstimate but it helps clarify your thinking, assuming decent glue and technique,

Traditional dovetails, 200 years?

Finger joints, 40 years?

Biscuits, 10 years?

But it (dovetail) is only 200 years since it'll still (just about) hold together when the 200 year-old glue has failed, surely? :mrgreen:

AFAIU The dovetail cuts are actually usually weaker than a relatively finely cut box joint (because of the amount and way material is removed), so with modern glues the box joint is probably stronger. That said, even a simple combined rebate/dado joint will probably outlast the maker with most modern glues being so good.

These days I think of a dovetail as a purely decorative joint, as well as being a sign that the maker has more skill, and a lot more time, than me :wink:

 

[Benchwayze]

With mention of dado stacks, I see there is now a new invention... 8)
I.e. A wobble dado set. Adjustable of course. Seems like someone reinvented the 'wheell' then?

A table saw with a dado stack capability is still Number One on my 'Wish I had' list. Ah well, I went for the tracksaw, so my bed is made!

Cheers

 

[sploo]

With mention of dado stacks, I see there is now a new invention... 8)
I.e. A wobble dado set. Adjustable of course. Seems like someone reinvented the 'wheell' then?

A table saw with a dado stack capability is still Number One on my 'Wish I had' list. Ah well, I went for the tracksaw, so my bed is made!

Cheers

Wobble dados have been around for donkey's years, AFAIK. Scary things, and I believe not as clean in terms of the cut as a 'proper' stacked dado set.

 

[Benchwayze]

With mention of dado stacks, I see there is now a new invention... 8)
I.e. A wobble dado set. Adjustable of course. Seems like someone reinvented the 'wheell' then?

A table saw with a dado stack capability is still Number One on my 'Wish I had' list. Ah well, I went for the tracksaw, so my bed is made!

Cheers

Wobble dados have been around for donkey's years, AFAIK. Scary things, and I believe not as clean in terms of the cut as a 'proper' stacked dado set.

You are probably correct Sploo. I can't say I ever came across them mind, no doubt because I never owned a table saw, for longer than a month or so.

The wobble blade on my Coronet Combination machine was fine, but its main drawback was the very slight arc induced at the bottom of the cut, due to the sideways wobble of course. The wider the comb setting, the more pronounced the arc. I still have the wobble-saw, but the wish for a proper tablesaw remains. I have the space, just, but it would mean having the saw hard against the right hand wall, and directly in front of the door. That means working with the doors wide open. Okay in summer... Only!

Cheers

 

[woodenstx]

I've been pondering methods for box joints for a while now.
I don't have an adjustable height table saw, and I don't have a table router. I did knock up a design to use a sort of inverted router table idea with a normal router, clamping the piece vertically and then a sled of sorts with a guide bush channel and 1/2" brass strip as the indexer.
I've a feeling the faff for even the 5 drawers I plan to make is too much for this idea :lol:
Now on the look out for a "cheap" table router or table saw to do the job.... or simply rabbbbbbet the damn things together.
Saying that, a routed dovetail jig from machinemart might be upto the job too with the 1/2" ply