devonwoody
Established Member
I have come across some interesting web pages on boat plans and construction, there might be a bit of advertising involved so await your interest before I post any links.
Boat plans
- Thread starter devonwoody
- Start date
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devonwoody
Established Member
my apologies re the advertising content, but I have no monetary interests in the links.
http://homepage.mac.com/peterhyndman/PDRinfo/
http://www.storerboatplans.com/
http://homepage.mac.com/peterhyndman/GIS/
http://homepage.mac.com/peterhyndman/PDRinfo/
http://www.storerboatplans.com/
http://homepage.mac.com/peterhyndman/GIS/
Travis
Established Member
Definition of a boat:
A hole in the water where you pour your money!!
I know because I have one.
Travis
A hole in the water where you pour your money!!
I know because I have one.
Travis
Howdy All,
Travis is kinda right. Some boats do take a lot of maintenance. But little simple boats built using modern materials can be more trouble free than a fibreglass one - and a lot cheaper to get a hold of.
For example the PDRacerss in the links above cost Australian $350 each and haven't cost a cent for two years. 120 to 250 sterling? Depends on relative costs.
We are coming up to make new sails - some polytarp and an evening's work - cost $45.
Every other part is in fine working order.
That doesn't mean that Travis and others are wrong - he still has a boat that he enjoys and probably loves so the satisfactions are greater than the costs for him too.
Modern wood construction is lighter than fibreglass anyhow - in the sizes above it can be half the weight - and nicer to work with - and impresses the onlookers (as all woodworkers know!)
Other things that people might find interesting in general.
These comments are not to say that this is the ONLY way to build a boat - but just to say that it is one of the accepted modern methods that CAN be used and some may not be aware of.
I apologise if this is all well known on this forum.
We don't use screws or nails permanently in the structure - this method is now common for boats up to around 120ft. We use drywall/plasterboard screws to hold everything together then pull them out after the epoxy sets up - means that you don't need a lot of clamps to build a boat.
We use epoxy for all glueing - it removes the necessity for tight joins and high clamping pressures as it is a reliable gap filler.
We also coat the surfaces of the boat with epoxy - three coats - that can be applied wet on wet in one process. This prevents moisture entering and leaving the structure except at very low rates with the result that the boat won't crack joins or paint. So paint and varnish last a lot longer - which is a nett money (and time) saver.
Anyway ... it is a lot of fun and need not be toooooo expensive - whichever building method is chosen.
The boats above are sheet plywood which is very labour efficient - but there are very traditional looking boats with more parts that use the same methods from other designers elsewhere on the net thus appealing to a wide range of people.
Best wishes
Michael Storer
Travis is kinda right. Some boats do take a lot of maintenance. But little simple boats built using modern materials can be more trouble free than a fibreglass one - and a lot cheaper to get a hold of.
For example the PDRacerss in the links above cost Australian $350 each and haven't cost a cent for two years. 120 to 250 sterling? Depends on relative costs.
We are coming up to make new sails - some polytarp and an evening's work - cost $45.
Every other part is in fine working order.
That doesn't mean that Travis and others are wrong - he still has a boat that he enjoys and probably loves so the satisfactions are greater than the costs for him too.
Modern wood construction is lighter than fibreglass anyhow - in the sizes above it can be half the weight - and nicer to work with - and impresses the onlookers (as all woodworkers know!)
Other things that people might find interesting in general.
These comments are not to say that this is the ONLY way to build a boat - but just to say that it is one of the accepted modern methods that CAN be used and some may not be aware of.
I apologise if this is all well known on this forum.
We don't use screws or nails permanently in the structure - this method is now common for boats up to around 120ft. We use drywall/plasterboard screws to hold everything together then pull them out after the epoxy sets up - means that you don't need a lot of clamps to build a boat.
We use epoxy for all glueing - it removes the necessity for tight joins and high clamping pressures as it is a reliable gap filler.
We also coat the surfaces of the boat with epoxy - three coats - that can be applied wet on wet in one process. This prevents moisture entering and leaving the structure except at very low rates with the result that the boat won't crack joins or paint. So paint and varnish last a lot longer - which is a nett money (and time) saver.
Anyway ... it is a lot of fun and need not be toooooo expensive - whichever building method is chosen.
The boats above are sheet plywood which is very labour efficient - but there are very traditional looking boats with more parts that use the same methods from other designers elsewhere on the net thus appealing to a wide range of people.
Best wishes
Michael Storer
woodbloke
Established Member
Travis wrote:
or is that sailing? - Rob
Another one I've heard is... 'standing under a shower tearing up £20 notes'
or is that sailing? - Rob
Yes - that is sailing.
But even with sailing there are some boats where you can tear up 10 £20 notes and then stop tearing and go sailing.
Canoes and rowboats and fishing boats can slot in at those sorts of figures too.
Generally a modern wooden boat will be lighter than a fibreglass or plastic production boat of the same type and size. Fibreglass canoes probably centre around the 75 to 100 lb range for a 16footer. Wooden ones around 40 to 55lbs with no special care taken to lightweight them.
But in general to use quality marine products would probably have price ranges like this ... depending on how much machining of timber you can do yourself - these are rough translations from Australian Prices where all items are built from quality materials.
Shopping in the UK would probably reduce the costs somewhat. Only one of the below is my design - so I am trying to write in a general sense rather than advertising my wares.
There are plans for some of these types that are very good for first time unskilled builders - so a skilled person would eat them up.
Plywood canoe - £300 23kg for most well designed ones.
Cedar Strip canoe - looks traditional - more work than plywood - almost equally light £500+
Sheet Plywood Sailing Dinghy - many conventional designs based around racing have become expensive because of the manufactured bits required. This style of boat uses a minimum. The boat in the pic is about £1000 including all the bits and sail etc, but you can start much cheaper (ie smaller) than tthat - and you don't need all that money to start with.
These boats don't require jigs to build over - all parts are prefabbed and then assembled into the boat in the right order.
Traditional looking Plywood Dinghies - similar costs to the above (usually a little bit more expensive than plywood boats of a similar size because you have to build a simple temporary frame to build the boat over).
These are much simplified over truly traditional dinghies - they are all glue joined so very unlikely to leak ever and live happily on a trailer. The consummate designer in this area is Iain Oughtred whose boats are great and whose plans are wonderfully detailed - lots of craft but nothing difficult as it is all worked out.
Small motorboats are divided up in the same way according to sheet or planked and are cheaper for the same length boat (no sails and other bits) but you have to add the cost of the engine. You can go fast or slow depending on the design.
The hulls are cheaper than sailboats but then you have to buy the donk.
I have focussed on smaller sizes as this is of the most general interest.
"There are two types of good boats
Those you live aboard, and ...
... those you stick on you car roof to take home."
This is an overstatement, but a grain of truth in there too.
Best wishes
Michael Storer
But even with sailing there are some boats where you can tear up 10 £20 notes and then stop tearing and go sailing.
Canoes and rowboats and fishing boats can slot in at those sorts of figures too.
Generally a modern wooden boat will be lighter than a fibreglass or plastic production boat of the same type and size. Fibreglass canoes probably centre around the 75 to 100 lb range for a 16footer. Wooden ones around 40 to 55lbs with no special care taken to lightweight them.
But in general to use quality marine products would probably have price ranges like this ... depending on how much machining of timber you can do yourself - these are rough translations from Australian Prices where all items are built from quality materials.
Shopping in the UK would probably reduce the costs somewhat. Only one of the below is my design - so I am trying to write in a general sense rather than advertising my wares.
There are plans for some of these types that are very good for first time unskilled builders - so a skilled person would eat them up.
Plywood canoe - £300 23kg for most well designed ones.
Cedar Strip canoe - looks traditional - more work than plywood - almost equally light £500+
Sheet Plywood Sailing Dinghy - many conventional designs based around racing have become expensive because of the manufactured bits required. This style of boat uses a minimum. The boat in the pic is about £1000 including all the bits and sail etc, but you can start much cheaper (ie smaller) than tthat - and you don't need all that money to start with.
These boats don't require jigs to build over - all parts are prefabbed and then assembled into the boat in the right order.
Traditional looking Plywood Dinghies - similar costs to the above (usually a little bit more expensive than plywood boats of a similar size because you have to build a simple temporary frame to build the boat over).
These are much simplified over truly traditional dinghies - they are all glue joined so very unlikely to leak ever and live happily on a trailer. The consummate designer in this area is Iain Oughtred whose boats are great and whose plans are wonderfully detailed - lots of craft but nothing difficult as it is all worked out.
Small motorboats are divided up in the same way according to sheet or planked and are cheaper for the same length boat (no sails and other bits) but you have to add the cost of the engine. You can go fast or slow depending on the design.
The hulls are cheaper than sailboats but then you have to buy the donk.
I have focussed on smaller sizes as this is of the most general interest.
"There are two types of good boats
Those you live aboard, and ...
... those you stick on you car roof to take home."
This is an overstatement, but a grain of truth in there too.
Best wishes
Michael Storer
DaveL
Established Member
Hi Michael,
Welcome to the forum.
Your pictures have been caught by our spam trap, this will stop once you have a few more posts, here they are:-
Welcome to the forum.
Your pictures have been caught by our spam trap, this will stop once you have a few more posts, here they are:-
Thanks for that Dave.
BOATBUILDING METHODS PHOTODIARIES
Seeing that people here are more likely to be interested in building methods here are some links to photseries on Flickr.
Sheet Plywood sailboat - Goat Island Skiff
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik/se ... 972202430/
Sheet Plywood canoe - Eureka
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik/se ... 053377705/
Timber strip Canoe - Rob Roy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik/se ... 490801279/
Pot Pourri including the modern version of traditional clinker construction from a residential boatbuilding school - 10 days starting from nothing to having a substantial bit of boat at the end - this indicates the reduction in labour time and skill required to produce a good result because of improved plans and methods.
Note that only two of these people had built a boat before (moulded fibreglass) and only two had done much woodwork at all.
You can also get an idea of the relative speeds of the methods of building - though the little clinker boat was using a second hand temporary mould which saved a day or so.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik/se ... 281214723/
Michael Storer
BOATBUILDING METHODS PHOTODIARIES
Seeing that people here are more likely to be interested in building methods here are some links to photseries on Flickr.
Sheet Plywood sailboat - Goat Island Skiff
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik/se ... 972202430/
Sheet Plywood canoe - Eureka
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik/se ... 053377705/
Timber strip Canoe - Rob Roy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik/se ... 490801279/
Pot Pourri including the modern version of traditional clinker construction from a residential boatbuilding school - 10 days starting from nothing to having a substantial bit of boat at the end - this indicates the reduction in labour time and skill required to produce a good result because of improved plans and methods.
Note that only two of these people had built a boat before (moulded fibreglass) and only two had done much woodwork at all.
You can also get an idea of the relative speeds of the methods of building - though the little clinker boat was using a second hand temporary mould which saved a day or so.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/boatmik/se ... 281214723/
Michael Storer
devonwoody
Established Member
Thanks for post, made me wish I was young again.
I dont want to launch anymore boats.
I dont want to launch anymore boats.
very nice thread guys, im new here and think the woodworking jedi in me led me here , i am a keen fisherman and spent my last 3 hollidays boating/fishing and run a small carpentry company and work as a benchand and this thread talked me into building my own boat (most exciting) my grandad was a sea fisherman by trade and done alot on his own boats, so this will be my next goal as soon as im finished my current mission
thanx
thanx
devonwoody
Established Member
So deano, are you down in the S.W.?
Hi
On my website I have a page of methods relevant to wooden boats in the modern style.
For example we generally don't use permanent fastenings in the structure - only using drywall/plasterboard screws while the glue sets up.
The screws can also be driven in with a cordless drill and remove the need for the dozens and dozens of clamps that can be required for boatbuilding.
Most of my projects I only use a half dozen clamps - though the cheaper spring type clamps come in quite useful.
Also articles about preventing wood rot, restoring old boats, etc.
http://www.storerboatplans.com/Faq/faqindex.html
Best wishes
Michael
On my website I have a page of methods relevant to wooden boats in the modern style.
For example we generally don't use permanent fastenings in the structure - only using drywall/plasterboard screws while the glue sets up.
The screws can also be driven in with a cordless drill and remove the need for the dozens and dozens of clamps that can be required for boatbuilding.
Most of my projects I only use a half dozen clamps - though the cheaper spring type clamps come in quite useful.
Also articles about preventing wood rot, restoring old boats, etc.
http://www.storerboatplans.com/Faq/faqindex.html
Best wishes
Michael
SketchUp Guru
Established Member
Perhaps I'm a bit biased but I think wooden boats can be some of the most beautiful things. I've done two if you include the cradle which most readers here will be familiar with. I've been trying to settle on the next boat to build. There are so many designs and so little money and time.
I kind of think that every woodworker ought to consider building a boat even if it is only a cradle boat. They're a good way to get some exposure to boat building without having to have a huge shop or investment.
There are many methods that have been developed by boat builders that are good skills for any woodworker. I also think it is good excercise to be made to think about working with curves.
For anyone who might be interested in building a boat cradle, take a look at this:
Click on the picture.
I kind of think that every woodworker ought to consider building a boat even if it is only a cradle boat. They're a good way to get some exposure to boat building without having to have a huge shop or investment.
There are many methods that have been developed by boat builders that are good skills for any woodworker. I also think it is good excercise to be made to think about working with curves.
For anyone who might be interested in building a boat cradle, take a look at this:
Click on the picture.
Still looks great after all the time past ,when you first showed that cradle.
Could you please post more info again, as spring is definatley in the air here in East Friesland, and I would like to start on a simerler project for the summer.
Karl
Could you please post more info again, as spring is definatley in the air here in East Friesland, and I would like to start on a simerler project for the summer.
Karl
SketchUp Guru
Established Member
Hi Karl.
Thank you. That isn't the one I built though. Here's a picture of that one. I did do a version of that stand though. It's sort of my own design with a nod to Gavin Atkin who designed a simliar looking hull for an 8' boat.
What would you like to know about it?
Thank you. That isn't the one I built though.
Here's a picture of that one. I did do a version of that stand though. It's sort of my own design with a nod to Gavin Atkin who designed a simliar looking hull for an 8' boat.
What would you like to know about it?
Dave R":29vk20hk said:Perhaps I'm a bit biased but I think wooden boats can be some of the most beautiful things. I've done two if you include the cradle which most readers here will be familiar with. I've been trying to settle on the next boat to build. There are so many designs and so little money and time.
Click on the picture.
I don't think it even vaguely qualifies as Bias Dave.
Rather nice!
Best wishes
Michael Storer
SketchUp Guru
Established Member
Thank you Michael.
I have been watching this thread unfold from early 2007.
It sort of encapsulates the whole idea of building boats for yourself ... keeping them small ... and making them out of wood.
The next email was to make the adjustments to the foil templates to accurately shape the centreboard and rudder for a big jump in performance.
About this time I realised that a couple of new registrations had crept onto the international registration site
http://www.pdracer.com/fleets/index.htm
West Africa
#164 Isaiah Bornman
#170 Caleb Bornman
THEN
The reasons for the rudder breakages are explained here as well as the remedy.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=69280
Simply to glue the tiller to the sides of the box (it was free to pivot) and add one bolt at the bottom of the box.
Isn't that the coolest colour scheme - actually they are all rather nice - the Bornman family has very good taste indeed!
And here is the rudder breakage
West Africa
#211 Laurel Bornman "Watermelon"
The boats looked very cool in their different colour schemes! The kids must be thrilled - they certainly look that way.
And while the one above is a little down at the stern the next is sitting a wee bit too far back. If the stern transom corner goes underwater it slows the boat up badly.
But the next pic shows the whole fleet in perfect trim!
Thankyou Caleb, Isiah, Laurel and Jonathan! (and probably a number of unsung heroes!)
Great story!
(Michael)
It sort of encapsulates the whole idea of building boats for yourself ... keeping them small ... and making them out of wood.
The next email was to make the adjustments to the foil templates to accurately shape the centreboard and rudder for a big jump in performance.
Here are the pics he sent.
About this time I realised that a couple of new registrations had crept onto the international registration site
http://www.pdracer.com/fleets/index.htm
West Africa
#164 Isaiah Bornman
#170 Caleb Bornman
THEN
The reasons for the rudder breakages are explained here as well as the remedy.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=69280
Simply to glue the tiller to the sides of the box (it was free to pivot) and add one bolt at the bottom of the box.
Isn't that the coolest colour scheme - actually they are all rather nice - the Bornman family has very good taste indeed!
And here is the rudder breakage
And this on the worldwide registration site
West Africa
#211 Laurel Bornman "Watermelon"
The boats looked very cool in their different colour schemes! The kids must be thrilled - they certainly look that way.
And then TODAY!!!!!!!
And while the one above is a little down at the stern the next is sitting a wee bit too far back. If the stern transom corner goes underwater it slows the boat up badly.
But the next pic shows the whole fleet in perfect trim!
Thankyou Caleb, Isiah, Laurel and Jonathan! (and probably a number of unsung heroes!)
Great story!
(Michael)
