Block Plane - honing angles?

[woodbloke]

Just curious. I was messing around this afternoon with sorting out angles on planes etc and wondered what other users have for their primary bevel and honed bevel on their block plane? Does anyone hone the bevels lower than a standard BU bench plane for instance? - Rob

 

[Ironballs]

I go for the standard 25/30 Rob as on my other bench planes, the exception being the LV BUS

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Hi Rob

I hollow grind at 25 degrees and freehand hone directly on that, for all steel types.

At one time I did hone a Stanley #18 knucklejoint at 50 degrees for use as a mini smoother, but found myself preferring a Muginfang mini smoother (60 degree BD) and so returned it to its original config. I also had a Stanley #140 (20 degree bed) and honed the blade at 20 degrees (a mistake!) when I restored it. It worked well for tenons this way, soI left it. It was in use for a number of years.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Paul Chapman]

Hi Rob,

I use the standard 25 primary, 30 secondary with a 2 degree microbevel. However, I keep one blade for my old Stanley #60 1/2 honed very steep (don't know what the angle is but about 1" projection - or maybe less - on the Eclipse guide) for planing plastics like Formica, perspex and edging strips - helps the edge to last longer and it's fast to hone.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

 

[Anonymous]

Just curious. I was messing around this afternoon with sorting out angles on planes etc and wondered what other users have for their primary bevel and honed bevel on their block plane? Does anyone hone the bevels lower than a standard BU bench plane for instance? - Rob

Hi Rob

I got fed up with trying differenet angles on different planes and all bevel down are ground at 25 degrees with 30 degree secondary regardless of the plane size.

Works for me

 

[woodbloke]

I only ask because I think I came across a problem, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Assuming that you want to have the blade honed at an effective pitch say of 30deg, on a block plane with a 12deg bed. The blade on a block plane can, if wished, be honed at a lower angle than a bench plane to allow for easier planing of end grain. This means then that the blade needs to be honed at 18deg, (far too low though for A2 steel)
Two things then happen...first and foremost, the honing angle then becomes less than the grinding angle which seems to be impossible. Second and foremost, a very shallow honed angle in the Eclipse guide ain't possible 'cos there's not enough length of blade to enable it to be gripped in the jaws of the guide.
I sorted out it out by eventually going back to the same honing angle for all the other BU plane blades, which gives me an effective pitch of 48deg, but how would you hone the blade if a much lower EP was needed?
Is it me, or was it too late at night :? after a glass or three of vino collapso? - Rob

 

[bugbear]

I only ask because I think I came across a problem, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Assuming that you want to have the blade honed at an effective pitch say of 30deg, on a block plane with a 12deg bed. The blade on a block plane can, if wished, be honed at a lower angle than a bench plane to allow for easier planing of end grain. This means then that the blade needs to be honed at 18deg, (far too low though for A2 steel)
Two things then happen...first and foremost, the honing angle then becomes less than the grinding angle which seems to be impossible. Second and foremost, a very shallow honed angle in the Eclipse guide ain't possible 'cos there's not enough length of blade to enable it to be gripped in the jaws of the guide.
I sorted out it out by eventually going back to the same honing angle for all the other BU plane blades, which gives me an effective pitch of 48deg, but how would you hone the blade if a much lower EP was needed?
Is it me, or was it too late at night :? after a glass or three of vino collapso? - Rob

Two issues;

1) How to make a super low angle bevel. As you note, you're probably going to have to go single bevel - you won't be able to get a griding bevel lower than your honing bevel, if your honing bevel super low.

To get "enough" blade extension, use an extender, in the same way that people do for (e.g.) spokeshave blades.

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... 43078&ap=1

I've made a holder for Stanley Knife blades that allows me to put a 12 degree bevel on each side.

2) If the angle is super low, the blade may crumble; this can be mitigated by using a back bevel, which MUST still leave some blade relief. In the case of a 12 degree bed, you might be able to use 6 degrees of back bevel. Your cutting edge is then 24 degrees, which should hold up better than the 18 degrees you'd otherwise have.

BugBear

 

[Derek Cohen (Perth Oz)]

Assuming that you want to have the blade honed at an effective pitch say of 30deg, on a block plane with a 12deg bed. The blade on a block plane can, if wished, be honed at a lower angle than a bench plane to allow for easier planing of end grain. This means then that the blade needs to be honed at 18deg, (far too low though for A2 steel)

Rob

An 18 degree edge is not going to hold up on endgrain. And I just do not see the point anyway. I can cut endgrain with a 60 degree included angle - I used to do this all the time on my HNT Gordon Trying Plane and shooting board. A lower angle is better - cuts cleaner and more easily, but 37 degrees (12 + 25) is just perfect.

Plus you will not have enough clearance (7 degrees is needed and you have 6).

I sorted out it out by eventually going back to the same honing angle for all the other BU plane blades, which gives me an effective pitch of 48deg, but how would you hone the blade if a much lower EP was needed?

I don't understand - do you not grind and hone blades at 25 degrees?

For 25 degrees I simply grind a hollow and then freehand this on waterstones. Can it be that simple? Am I missing soimething?

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[woodbloke]

I don't understand - do you not grind and hone blades at 25 degrees?

For 25 degrees I simply grind a hollow and then freehand this on waterstones. Can it be that simple? Am I missing soimething?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek - I generally grind at 23deg (A2) and then hone at something slightly higher in the Eclipse guide. What I was trying to sort out a few days ago was how to get a lower EP on the block plane, but I realised that it ain't possible (at least with how I grind and hone) and as you correctly say, it works just as well with a higher pitch, so no need for a back bevel as BB has suggested. As BB also correctly said, a super low bevel on A2 will just crumble anyway so it's not really a practical proposition at the end of the jour - Rob

 

[Brit-in-France]

This comment may bring a few groans but sometimes the obvious is overlooked.

You have remembered the the ground edge should be uppermost in a block plane?

Had a pal who used his 'block' with the blade in the wrong way round.

Said with a smile and hope its received in the same way -

Rgds
Jim

 

[woodbloke]

You have remembered the the ground edge should be uppermost in a block plane?

Said with a smile and hope its received in the same way -

Rgds
Jim

That's been taken into account ...the blade in the LN block is used bevel up - Rob