Beware the cheats!

[Kentbeaver69]

I got to the workshop this morning to be confronted by a disgruntled colleague.

He was all like - "what's the point in us breaking our backs to make good stuff when there's people importing furniture from Indonesia and making out its made in this country".

So of course I asked him what he was on about and he said he'd seen an advert on facebook for "uniquesolidwoodfurniturebystan"

He wanted a new bed from a UK company and couldn't believe how cheap they were so checked them out and while he was looking, happened to notice that the website address was linked to Indonesia. So being a straightforward fellow, he asked the guy running the blog whether the furniture was made in Indonesia (there was no mention of this and the website made out that the company designed and handmade all of their own furniture and was presented as a bespoke service). He didn't mind if they were initially but got a bit angry with the reply which was that the "website is linked to Indonesia because it is" He then asked -"So it's all made in Indonesia then?" No reply and his post was then promptly deleted which made him even more disgruntled.

So this morning he showed me the site and having a background in furniture design, I couldn't help but notice the clear resemblance between one of the nesting chair / sofas and David Savages work. There was also pieces on there which were clearly very close to those by other famous makers.

As a UK woodworker, I couldn't help but feel that people were being deliberately misled and thought I should flag it up here to see what other people think about it. It makes our lives harder because it alters public opinion against UK makers if they draw a direct comparison between this sort of company and one manufacturing in the UK!

 

[NazNomad]

Damn those Indonesians with all that exotic wood growing on their doorstep. :-D

 

[Kentbeaver69]

Actually, I didn't even start to look into whether it was sustainable timber..
Noticed something else - there are no mediocre reviews - at all - or criticisms on Facebook and all the contributors seem to be friends of the site! The plot thickens...

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

There are lots of other makers furniture on those pages and there seems to be endless numbers of pages! I wonder if the images are just speculative, copied and pasted from lots of other websites, in the attempt to make his website look impresive. But also as speculative images, that can be made (sort of) when a customer takes a fancy to one. There are no prices on these, just reference codes.

TBH the stuff with prices looks foreign and is also flippin' horrible. I don't think we have much to worry about, the customers of that website will not have the budget to buy British made craftsmanship, nor the taste and discernment to know the difference.

Mike.

 

[MattRoberts]

HFF. Com did a video on some modifications to some imported furniture a client had purchased from Thailand I believe. Upon investigation, and under the layers of paint that covered the whole piece, he discovered it was solid teak. And I mean everything - even the 45 degree braces, panels, the lot. And it had been painted.

Weighed a ton mind.

 

[Alexfn]

This furniture by Stan page started coming up on my Facebook feed a while back. I instantly smelled a rat. Over a few short months it's built a massive following with lots of compliments about the guy being an artist.

If he is importing it then he's comitting fraud by misrepresentation because hes made several comments on his Facebook page in reply to others about how long it takes him to make these peices.. that's one of the things that doesn't add up. How long he claims it takes him to make it and the price he's selling it at.. you would not be making a living.

I actually wondered if it was an out and out scam and after placing and order it would never show up.. feel a bit daft for not guessing it was imported. Looking at the timber now it's obvious...


Just like anti dumping tax needs to be applied to some good from China something needs to be done here. It snuffs out local talent because it's impossible to complete with those prices

 

[tomatwark]

Try googling the phone number and you will find that this guy is buying up domain names creating a simple web page with a different company name.

 

[Nelsun]

^I'm confused. I just googled the phone number and clicked through to http://oakfurnitureshops.co.uk/ and I'll be badgered if I can see anything made from oak. About the only thing I could find that mentioned species was a solid mahogany and zebrano bed starting at £345. What a talented guy that Stan is, making all that (hammer) (hammer) (hammer) (homer)

I have to confess to looking through the facebook photos last night when they appeared as if by magic. Besides the low prices I was curious about him having 500 items to get rid of to make room for more of his creations and was trying to flog them off... cheap! He must be very busy and have a shedload of cash to tie up that amount of wood in unsold furniture. Or lying through his back teeth. Even better, the business operates out of "Long Shot Lane" =D>

My sarcasm metre is redlining!

 

[Cheshirechappie]

He's got a mate doing something very similar, and working from the same address - http://www.solidwoodfurnitureuk.co.uk/

To be fair, they're not the only company offering 'bespoke' furniture that turns out to be made overseas; Brights of Nettlebed do something similar, though they aim at a slightly higher price market and their marketing is a bit more subtle - http://www.brightsofnettlebed.co.uk/

On the other hand, Arthur Brett still make furniture to established and modern designs in Norwich - http://www.arthurbrett.com/ - and Ercol are still going in the Chilterns - http://www.ercol.com/about/factory-tour/

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

Was just reading this tread and an Oak Flipping Furniture Land banner appeared along the bottom.

It is all the same, imported garbage made be the poor. It makes me sick. However, I don't believe it is cheap copies that make it difficult for British makers to earn a living,it is just cheap imports in general. No one who wants a David Savage chair and has the mean to do so, will buy one of these; there is simply no conflict there. Not that I agree with the theft of intellectual property at all. But it is more the general populous, who's only datum for prices are the likes of OFL so think a British maker is robbing them when they quote for a good job. I have had prospective clients, incandescent with rage, when quoted for a job, because the prices in their heads were so vastly different, based on what they had sent in the shops. They obviously thought I was taking them for some sort of fool. But they never rationalise the cost of the item with the time and materials it goes to make a thing. I have often had people commenting that a piece they have seen ' must have taken weeks to make' but somehow is only going to cost them 300 pounds because their datum tells them that a six drawer chest is that much!


It is depressing.

Mike.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

Mike - that's true, of course, but has it ever been any different? There's always been a range of furniture from basic to fine. Indeed, in many respects, the gap has closed somewhat over a couple of centuries (except the quality and durability of 'basic' furniture has diminished somewhat). There's also always been somebody with a flexible conscience and an eye for a quick buck.

The world changes, new commercial challenges arise. We just have to adapt, somehow. The good news is that there's still room for quality makers such as those I quoted above, and a few really good high-end designer-makers.

 

[lurker]

Its rife through out manufactured goods

All of these "lies" are a fraud but where do you go for a remedy?
The party of free enterprise (tories) have essentially removed trading standards and folks monitoring imports so no manufacturer in the UK is competing on a level playing field.

AND we the public have no one protecting us from dangerous goods any more.

Here is just one weeks dangerous rubbish that has been spotted by the authorities (tip of an iceberg)
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/consumers ... &Year=2016

 

[woodbrains]

Mike - that's true, of course, but has it ever been any different? There's always been a range of furniture from basic to fine. Indeed, in many respects, the gap has closed somewhat over a couple of centuries (except the quality and durability of 'basic' furniture has diminished somewhat). There's also always been somebody with a flexible conscience and an eye for a quick buck.

The world changes, new commercial challenges arise. We just have to adapt, somehow. The good news is that there's still room for quality makers such as those I quoted above, and a few really good high-end designer-makers.

Hello,

I agree, it has always been so. Wasn't it Liberty of London who started by copying Arts and Crafts furniture in factory piece work workshops, when the whole point of Arts and Crafts was to eschew the oppression of factory workers? A great irony but people got wealthy.

It is the ignorance of the buying public that gets my goat. The difference nowadays is there are many more affluent buyers than there have ever been, but not the desire to spend it on what they want. The propensity for people to dupe themselves into thinking these impoted things are any good and in any way compare with nicely made stuff is remarkable. But keeping their money in the bank acts as some sort of filter.

Besides, it is not a excuse to say it always happened, to justify it being continued. When you have tried to make a living at making things, worked very hard and still only manage to earn subsistence wages, then those with 'flexible consciouses' as you put it, get right up your hooter.

Mike.

 

[Cheshirechappie]

That's also true.

I don't think it's all bad news, though. Reputations do still count, so 'quality' manufacturers can still make a go of it.

The British foundry industry shrank dramatically a couple of decades ago, with a lot of work going to the far east. However, about five or so years ago, the sector in the UK noticed an upsurge, which had several factors. Quality was one - if you get a container full of sub-standard castings for your far-east supplier, what do you do about it? If you have a problem with the foundry 30 miles away, you can go and talk to them. Secondly, transport costs (not quite such a factor with furniture, since it's not as heavy). Thirdly, falsified quality documentation. Fourthly, UK foundries had learned how to maintain output with significantly lower costs.

Not necessarily directly transferrable to the furniture market, but perhaps indicative of what may happen as labour costs increase in the east. It's also the case that built-in furniture can't be fitted from the far east, which is why that market remains. So it's not all permanent doom and gloom.

Thirty years ago, I was reading that the future of the bespoke furniture market was secure provided clients were educated to understand what they were buying. I don't think we've managed it, and most people are not in general significantly richer than they were then either. Consequently, it's not altogether surprising that they buy what they can afford, even if they do understand 'quality', and it's also not surprising that they equate what they see in the shops as 'normal' prices.

 

[woodbrains]

Hello,

It is a perennial problem, how to educate the buying public what quality is compared to the rubbish offerings in shops. But most makers are small outfits with no medium to educate through, they simply do not have the means for widespread education and advertisements. So the problem persists. If anyone can solve the problem, then please let us know how it is done!

Reputations are everything, but it is quite possible to never get one, even if rightly deserved. I can make the stuff for sure, but I haven't made enough of it to get the reputation, because I can't get the buying public to purchase it in the first place. It is a vicious cycle. Now I haven't the years left to get a reputation.

I don't blame (much) those of little means from buying British made things, though I do think they should buy better quality used furniture, as less well off people did, but seem not to do so much now. But the other great sin of the 21st century means that people have to have new, fashionable stuff and change it regularly. Used stuff is only fit for the dump, the quality is so poor.

The only solution I can see is for government legislation preventing the cutting of British manufacturing business' throats, by cheap imports. It is all well and good, legislating for safer working environments, fair wages, less polluting energy production and manufacturing processes, limiting working hours and having statutory holidays, child care, etc. etc. for workers in Europe, when goods can be imported from countries who do not have any of these human rights. Our manufacturing gets priced out of the Stratosphere before it can even think of profit and sustainability, and the foreign manufacturers, who do not worry about any of this, are unsurprisingly cheap. We should not allow imports from any manufacturer who does not comply with the same basic standards as we do in the West. When all is equal, then global human rights will be better, the global environment will be better and we would all have jobs. Except perhaps for those talentless morons who seem to think they can become wealthy by simply owning a flexible conscience.

Mike.

 

[Woodmonkey]

Yep, the stuff on that chaps website looks suspiciously similar (read "identical") to the stuff I see every time the misses drags me round Homesense. It looks ok from a distance but on closer inspection it's absolutely appalling quality, anyone who genuinely calls themselves a furniture maker would be embarrassed to sell that kind of tat.
Unfortunately Mike is correct, the majority of folk are ignorant to what is quality and what isn't.

 

[beech1948]

On a different note the oakfurnitureland or whatever site in Long Shot Lane is only about 6 miles from me. Interestingly it is in an industrial estate of small businesses and close to the Bracknell tip. In fact that was how I recognised it.

Will report back as I have a few friends who run their businesses from Long Shot Lane to see what they know.

I'll pop along and take a few pictures.

 

[RobinBHM]

On a different note the oakfurnitureland or whatever site in Long Shot Lane is only about 6 miles from me. Interestingly it is in an industrial estate of small businesses and close to the Bracknell tip. In fact that was how I recognised it.

Will report back as I have a few friends who run their businesses from Long Shot Lane to see what they know.

I'll pop along and take a few pictures.

Unit 48 is occupied by eyecare services group limited, Ruby Hashim director. Not much Stan or furniture

 

[Mr T]

Hello,

It is a perennial problem, how to educate the buying public what quality is compared to the rubbish offerings in shops. But most makers are small outfits with no medium to educate through, they simply do not have the means for widespread education and advertisements. So the problem persists. If anyone can solve the problem, then please let us know how it is done!

Reputations are everything, but it is quite possible to never get one, even if rightly deserved. I can make the stuff for sure, but I haven't made enough of it to get the reputation, because I can't get the buying public to purchase it in the first place. It is a vicious cycle. Now I haven't the years left to get a reputation.

I don't blame (much) those of little means from buying British made things, though I do think they should buy better quality used furniture, as less well off people did, but seem not to do so much now. But the other great sin of the 21st century means that people have to have new, fashionable stuff and change it regularly. Used stuff is only fit for the dump, the quality is so poor.

The only solution I can see is for government legislation preventing the cutting of British manufacturing business' throats, by cheap imports. It is all well and good, legislating for safer working environments, fair wages, less polluting energy production and manufacturing processes, limiting working hours and having statutory holidays, child care, etc. etc. for workers in Europe, when goods can be imported from countries who do not have any of these human rights. Our manufacturing gets priced out of the Stratosphere before it can even think of profit and sustainability, and the foreign manufacturers, who do not worry about any of this, are unsurprisingly cheap. We should not allow imports from any manufacturer who does not comply with the same basic standards as we do in the West. When all is equal, then global human rights will be better, the global environment will be better and we would all have jobs. Except perhaps for those talentless morons who seem to think they can become wealthy by simply owning a flexible conscience.

Mike.

I think the solution is also in your hands Mike (on a micro level).One of the reasons the public cannot spot quality in a product is that as a child they are no longer taught how things are made. Craft education nowadays is about design not making so the concept of quality is not an input. It also mens they have no idea how long it takes to make something properly.

Working in a school as you do Mike I'm sure your students will come out with a sound concept of quality. More power to your elbow!

Chris

 

[craigs]

Hello,

It is a perennial problem, how to educate the buying public what quality is compared to the rubbish offerings in shops. But most makers are small outfits with no medium to educate through, they simply do not have the means for widespread education and advertisements. So the problem persists. If anyone can solve the problem, then please let us know how it is done!

Reputations are everything, but it is quite possible to never get one, even if rightly deserved. I can make the stuff for sure, but I haven't made enough of it to get the reputation, because I can't get the buying public to purchase it in the first place. It is a vicious cycle. Now I haven't the years left to get a reputation.

I don't blame (much) those of little means from buying British made things, though I do think they should buy better quality used furniture, as less well off people did, but seem not to do so much now. But the other great sin of the 21st century means that people have to have new, fashionable stuff and change it regularly. Used stuff is only fit for the dump, the quality is so poor.

The only solution I can see is for government legislation preventing the cutting of British manufacturing business' throats, by cheap imports. It is all well and good, legislating for safer working environments, fair wages, less polluting energy production and manufacturing processes, limiting working hours and having statutory holidays, child care, etc. etc. for workers in Europe, when goods can be imported from countries who do not have any of these human rights. Our manufacturing gets priced out of the Stratosphere before it can even think of profit and sustainability, and the foreign manufacturers, who do not worry about any of this, are unsurprisingly cheap. We should not allow imports from any manufacturer who does not comply with the same basic standards as we do in the West. When all is equal, then global human rights will be better, the global environment will be better and we would all have jobs. Except perhaps for those talentless morons who seem to think they can become wealthy by simply owning a flexible conscience.

Mike.

^^^ what he said.

We live in a disposable society, fashions change, tastes change and people want their houses to be with current trends which has seen IKEA's huge boom. Im not sure the average person cares about quality, because quality is far more expensive than cheap crap that looks good and can be replaced easily. The UK is essentially screwed, we are screwed by the government now with taxes and cost of living, and unfortunately for UK manufacturers thats going to get worse with the shiny new trade agreements they plan to implement meaning foreign goods will be cheaper.

is there a fix? i dont think so. buying british just isn't an option for a lot of people unless the prices come down, which has other effects, you either screw the makers or you screw the consumers. Or you slap on tarrifs to imports and screw your economy AND your consumers. Also I dont see how a british person turns a screwdriver any different to a person in China or anywhere else for that matter. buying from a country is no guarantee of better quality, all of cr-apples devices are made in the peoples republic and there's nothing wrong with those. As a consumer who pays half his salary to water the queens gardens, I'll buy british when its competitive.