Best selling car 2023

[selectortone]

I wonder why people are ‘anti’ something. Is there a need to dissuade people of a course of action? ‘Pro’ I understand as there is a vested interest involved. Genuine question…

Some of it in this thread is blatant trolling. (Posting comments online to deliberately upset others).

 

[user 43593]

Some of it in this thread is blatant trolling. (Posting comments online to deliberately upset others).

While genuine debate is possible and desirable, networked coommunications don't always yield desirable outcomes. Disengaging electronically by selecting the ignore option and by making no further response is all you have.

 

[RogerS]

I wonder why people are ‘anti’ something. Is there a need to dissuade people of a course of action? ‘Pro’ I understand as there is a vested interest involved. Genuine question…

I think it's a natural reaction for some against those proselytising EVs..

 

[Woody2Shoes]

I wonder why people are ‘anti’ something. Is there a need to dissuade people of a course of action? ‘Pro’ I understand as there is a vested interest involved. Genuine question…

One man's pro is another man's anti. Many vested interests prefer a 'status quo' to be maintained.

 

[Vulcan]

On the topic of batteries it’s still relatively early days for EV’s. I can’t find the article I read a couple of weeks ago but this Google find will suffice.

https://technode.global/2023/09/28/...nd-near-fireproof-electric-vehicle-batteries/

 

[DrPhill]

I wonder why people are ‘anti’ something. Is there a need to dissuade people of a course of action? ‘Pro’ I understand as there is a vested interest involved. Genuine question…

Maybe every’anti’ something can be rephrased as a ‘pro’ something else?

Edit: Beaten by Woody2Shoes

 

[worn thumbs]

I'm curious about what will be happening in 2024 when the car makers are required to sell 22% of their total sales as EV's.If fewer than 22% of customers wish to buy the vehicles,where do we go?

 

[paulrbarnard]

Maybe every’anti’ something can be rephrased as a ‘pro’ something else?

Edit: Beaten by Woody2Shoes

Not the same at all. ‘Anti’ seems to be about restricting choice. Pro seems to be about promoting choice.
I get that some people want to keep buying ICE vehicles and they should be Pro ICE but instead they seem to be Anti EV.

 

[selectortone]

Not the same at all. ‘Anti’ seems to be about restricting choice. Pro seems to be about promoting choice.
I get that some people want to keep buying ICE vehicles and they should be Pro ICE but instead they seem to be Anti EV.

On a forum consisting of a large majority of curmudgeonly old men (I'm including myself in that demographic) what else would you expect?

Oh, and Happy New Year

 

[DrPhill]

Not the same at all. ‘Anti’ seems to be about restricting choice. Pro seems to be about promoting choice.
I get that some people want to keep buying ICE vehicles and they should be Pro ICE but instead they seem to be Anti EV.

I will concede the point.....

Though neither ev nor infernal combustion engines are the optimum solution. Both are still promoting inefficient personal transport, when the optimal solution is, as far as possible, to avoid personal transportation. Public transport and five (or ten or fifteen) minute towns/cities seems a much more sensible approach (where feasible).

 

[RogerS]

I'm curious about what will be happening in 2024 when the car makers are required to sell 22% of their total sales as EV's.If fewer than 22% of customers wish to buy the vehicles,where do we go?

I've wondered that myself. How on earth is that mandate going to be enforced ? "Sorry, Volkswagen, you've reached your ICE quota. `Now you must sell ECs for the rest of this year. What do you mean...a lot of people don't want one?'

Just as an aside, the Telegraph recently ran a poll asking readers if they were thinking about buying an EV. 84% said No. Just sayin'....neither pro nor anti, me.

 

[Spectric]

We have mentioned standards and standardisation which when it comes to ICE vehicles the diagnostic interface is common although you can get different results with different software on interpretation but what about EV's, they do not share something so basic as a charging cable so what about the diagnostic's interface ? This is something that the OEM's have for some time wanted to be a main dealer only tool as it is a good money spinner and maybe they will be looking to shut out your local garage which will put more expense on running cost. In theory it should be much simpler and if they really do want people to buy these EV's then one big incentive would be to incorporate all the diagnostics into the vehicle rather than relying on standalone diagnostic systems which has been a contentious issue for a long while.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

AIUI there are a number of get out of jail clauses in the rules surrounding the % of EVs sold. In particular it is expected that companies will be able to trade quotas - thus Tesla (100% electric) will be able to sell quotas to other companies with inadequate EV sales.

As the fine is £15k per vehicle for failing to meet the quota, I assume this sets a cap on the value. I have no idea what the premium will actually be - probably less than £15k - but even £3k additional cost on ICE will mean £3k off the EV - difference £6k.

The simplistic impacts:

• the price of ICE vehicles will increase due to the price paid for EV quotas
• manufacturers of EVs will get a price advantage through selling quotas
• demand for EVs will increase

This has the potential to completely disrupt the car market - I expect over the next 2-3 years for a number of established manufacturers to disappear to be replaced by new entrants who have invested in EV capability - design, technology, manufacturing processes etc.

 

[Jameshow]

AIUI there are a number of get out of jail clauses in the rules surrounding the % of EVs sold. In particular it is expected that companies will be able to trade quotas - thus Tesla (100% electric) will be able to sell quotas to other companies with inadequate EV sales.

As the fine is £15k per vehicle for failing to meet the quota, I assume this sets a cap on the value. I have no idea what the premium will actually be - probably less than £15k - but even £3k additional cost on ICE will mean £3k off the EV - difference £6k.

The simplistic impacts:

• the price of ICE vehicles will increase due to the price paid for EV quotas
• manufacturers of EVs will get a price advantage through selling quotas
• demand for EVs will increase

This has the potential to completely disrupt the car market - I expect over the next 2-3 years for a number of established manufacturers to disappear to be replaced by new entrants who have invested in EV capability - design, technology, manufacturing processes etc.

Possibly but I expect the big players will change the rules through lobbying government so that they are pushed back to limit financial damage....

 

[Vulcan]

I'm curious about what will be happening in 2024 when the car makers are required to sell 22% of their total sales as EV's.If fewer than 22% of customers wish to buy the vehicles,where do we go?

Looking on the net, around 16% of new car sales in the UK were EV’s in 2023. I’m not sure but I think it was up about 35% on last year. New ICE prices are going up and EV prices are coming down. Given that EV’s are half the cost per mile to run, once purchase price parity is reached in the next couple of years I’m guessing EV sales will increase well above 22%?

 

[Blackswanwood]

I'm curious about what will be happening in 2024 when the car makers are required to sell 22% of their total sales as EV's.If fewer than 22% of customers wish to buy the vehicles,where do we go?

I don’t think it will be an issue as there is a trend in the motor fleet market towards EV’s as more big companies focus on net zero commitments.

Quite a few major employers are also introducing salary sacrifice arrangements specifically for EV’s to help their employees make the transition.

 

[John Brown]

We have mentioned standards and standardisation which when it comes to ICE vehicles the diagnostic interface is common although you can get different results with different software on interpretation but what about EV's, they do not share something so basic as a charging cable so what about the diagnostic's interface ? This is something that the OEM's have for some time wanted to be a main dealer only tool as it is a good money spinner and maybe they will be looking to shut out your local garage which will put more expense on running cost. In theory it should be much simpler and if they really do want people to buy these EV's then one big incentive would be to incorporate all the diagnostics into the vehicle rather than relying on standalone diagnostic systems which has been a contentious issue for a long while.

Why does this charging cable thing keep cropping up? There are, as far as I know, fast charge outlets, that have a tethered cable which conforms to the ChaDeMo(sp?) standard, and a slow/medium charge standard socket that accepts a cable that can have two possible terminations at the vehicle end, but since that cable goes with the car, the vehicle end is irrelevant.
Not sure about Tesla, but I'm pretty certain you can charge them from a standard charge point, as I've seen them plugged in at my local Sainsbury's car park.

 

[paulrbarnard]

Why does this charging cable thing keep cropping up? There are, as far as I know, fast charge outlets, that have a tethered cable which conforms to the ChaDeMo(sp?) standard, and a slow/medium charge standard socket that accepts a cable that can have two possible terminations at the vehicle end, but since that cable goes with the car, the vehicle end is irrelevant.
Not sure about Tesla, but I'm pretty certain you can charge them from a standard charge point, as I've seen them plugged in at my local Sainsbury's car park.

As you say not a big problem but even the car end is being standardised in the US and likely to follow elsewhere. The US is releasing SAE J3400 which is the Tesla connector. This has already been confirmed by the large US auto makers.

 

[danst96]

This sums up my earlier comment quite well.

 

[worn thumbs]

I was aware that Tesla had been making tidy sums from selling credits and have been for some time.I did a search to learn more and this popped up Tesla Makes Money Selling Electric Vehicles, But 67% of Its Earnings Might Soon Come From This Instead | The Motley Fool . What might justifiably be causing concern elsewhere is this part a few paragraphs in: "Right now, Ford loses about $36,000 on every EV it produces!". That ought to be causing sleepless nights in Detroit or other branches of the empire and it would probably be unwise to believe they are the only company in such a position.