Best selling car 2023

[user 43593]

It was definitely a EV

ICE cars don’t spontaneously combust.

Especially diesel.

Internal combustion engined cars vs the swish and shiny external combustion engined cars.

 

[Cobbs]

Standardisation of those items actually accelerated innovation. Not having to design a battery and holder for an electronics project meant you could concentrate on the fun bits. Standardised TCP/IP means that we can create web apps without needing to write a communications protocol - we can innovate in the app domain without getting bogged down in the protocol.

My point is that (mostly) standardisation aids innovation by solving a common problem, so that unique solutions can easily be built around them. Sometimes the market takes a wrong turn (eg betamax or windows) and that stifles innovation, but mostly the availability of standard components helps create new ideas.

A good point, well made.

 

[John Brown]

It was definitely a EV

ICE cars don’t spontaneously combust.

Especially diesel.

I am curious as to how you can state "definitely". What's your evidence?

I agree that diesel is hard to ignite at ambient temperature and pressure, but a 12v circuit could provide the trigger, surely? Isn't that how the diesel heaters discussed at length in another thread work?

 

[John Brown]

Internal combustion engined cars vs the swish and shiny external combustion engined cars.

I'm sure you think that's very amusing, as I believe you've used it twice now, but since pretty much all the energy we use on this planet, including fossil fuels, has its source in that big bright yellow thing 93,000,000 miles away, external combustion has been on the menu, transport-wise, for quite a while.

 

[John Brown]

Yeah, AA and AAA batteries really stifled innovation. As did TCP/IP and html. So did the three-pin plug and the metric thread system. Imagine where we would be now without them.

Show me a mobile phone that runs on AA or AAA form factor cells, and I'll show you a BT Freeway.

 

[user 43593]

I'm sure you think that's very amusing, as I believe you've used it twice now, but since pretty much all the energy we use on this planet, including fossil fuels, has its source in that big bright yellow thing 93,000,000 miles away, external combustion has been on the menu, transport-wise, for quite a while.

colour me contrite

 

[Vulcan]

It was definitely a EV

ICE cars don’t spontaneously combust.

Especially diesel.

Yes they do. Vauxhall had a problem some years ago spontaneously combusting. More recently it’s been BMW Diesel’s.

“An NHS doctor has warned other Diesel BMW owners to buy the best fire extinguisher they can after his four-year-old car became the latest BMW to spontaneously burst into flames as he drove home from work.”

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...ollowing a spate,vary according to the model.

 

[Vulcan]

I am curious as to how you can state "definitely". What's your evidence?

I agree that diesel is hard to ignite at ambient temperature and pressure, but a 12v circuit could provide the trigger, surely? Isn't that how the diesel heaters discussed at length in another thread work?

From reports I’ve seen the fuel source often has little to do with it. An electrical fault starts the fire then burning plastics and fabrics accelerate the process. This happened to a friends car many years ago. The car was well ablaze before the fuel tank went up.

 

[Kev.k]

From reports I’ve seen the fuel source often has little to do with it. An electrical fault starts the fire then burning plastics and fabrics accelerate the process. This happened to a friends car many years ago. The car was well ablaze before the fuel tank went up.

Parked diesels don’t spontaneously combust.

A parked EV sank a boat load of cars last summer.

Numerous infernos have been caused by EV‘s when they occupy and tiny segment of cars on the road.

Will be a real issue if everyone has one.

 

[mc281]

The Metric Thread System came late to the party. It was originally developed by the Swiss and based upon Whitworth's 'Standard'.

It is still not 'Universal' though - the Left-Pondians deplore it and don't appreiciate the benefits of the Metric System in general. They don't even condone Metric paper sizes!!

That's a bit out of kelter with fact. The metric thread was not based on Whitworths standard but as a result of research into the most practical physics calcs at the time. Until something better comes along from a use and manufacturing viewpoint it will remain a standard ... Just like the UK 3 pin plug has from a safety and versatility point of view.
It is true that all threads could be claimed to be from Whitworths brain in the same way that animals which walk erect only require 2 legs so all are based on earlier 'designs'.

 

[mc281]

Parked diesels don’t spontaneously combust.

A parked EV sank a boat load of cars last summer.

Numerous infernos have been caused by EV‘s when they occupy and tiny segment of cars on the road.

Will be a real issue if everyone has one.

Parked diesel vehicle with fuel burning car/engine pre-heaters do!

 

[mc281]

No axe to grind at all, but I'd heard that in China the do the battery swap thing already.

Don't know if that's true

Renault tried it early on but it wasn't efficient for the market (cost effective) or convenient for customers using it. Hence it is no more..... The 'Betamax' effect!

 

[John Brown]

Parked diesels don’t spontaneously combust.

A parked EV sank a boat load of cars last summer.

Numerous infernos have been caused by EV‘s when they occupy and tiny segment of cars on the road.

Will be a real issue if everyone has one.

That's not evidence, and from figures I've seen it's nonsense. Just more anti EV conspiracy.

 

[DrPhill]

A good point, well made.

Thanks, I appreciate the acknowledgement.

There are nuances though. My arguments apply to standardised components of a solution that can be reused as part of a different solution (maybe to the same problem). I am sure that there will be counter cases - I just can’t think of any.

Another advantage of standardised components, or rather standardised interfaces between components, is that it makes improvements to the components easier and cheaper. Rechargeable batteries are interchangeable with the original AAs etc.

 

[DrPhill]

I don’t think that ev is part of the optimal solution. But

Numerous infernos have been caused by EV‘s when they occupy and tiny segment of cars on the road.

Is interesting. Do you have figures to support that assertion?

 

[J-G]

That's a bit out of kelter with fact.

Well, Prof. Marc Thury - who designed the first 'Metric' Thread Standard for the Société des Arts de Genève, was charged with creating a standard that "differed as little as possible from current practice" which was, at that time, Whitworth which had been in use for 37 years - though Sellers had created the American standard some 14 years prior which was a compromise on Whitworth's form in an attempt to ease manufacture but was (is) prone to higher stress. At that time neither Whitworth nor American standards had addressed diameters below 1/8" (~3mm) - even now UNF only gets down to 1.52mm (UNC to 1.85mm)

Being Swiss, the emphasis was on 'small' threads so the standard only covered diameters from 6mm down to 0.25mm (though later added up to 75.2mm but with a modified form). The Thury thread was designed to be produced by thread 'forming' using screw plates rather than being 'cut' and therefore creates a vastly stronger thread. Today, the vast majority of commercially produced external threads are manufactured by thread 'rolling'.

The first part of the Thury Standard was used (7 years later but not fully adopted until 26 years later!) as the basis for the British Association (BA) Standard but with equal Root & Crest radius.

 

[Vulcan]

Parked diesels don’t spontaneously combust.

Yes they do and yes they have. One was shown on TV some years back. It was just sitting outside someone’s house when it caught fire.

EV’s are 20 times less likely to catch fire than an ICE vehicle.

https://www.driving.co.uk/car-clini...nt on to,fire than electric-powered machines.

 

[paulrbarnard]

I wonder why people are ‘anti’ something. Is there a need to dissuade people of a course of action? ‘Pro’ I understand as there is a vested interest involved. Genuine question…

 

[Spectric]

I agree that diesel is hard to ignite at ambient temperature and pressure, but a 12v circuit could provide the trigger, surely? Isn't that how the diesel heaters discussed at length in another thread work?

Petrol ignites much easier than diesel because it will evapourate and it is this gasous state that burns easy. Diesel is harder to ignite, in the diesel ICE it is the injectors that atomise the fuel. What has not been mentioned is brake fluid which is combustable and also common to both ICE and EV.

The main reason for ICE burning is often electrical and the fact the car is made with a lot of combustable materials such as plastic and foam. The most dangerous are the fluoroelastomers used in the wiring looms that produce hydrofluoric acid during combustion so both ICE and Ev share many materials with EV having more wiring and lithium batteries so both ICE or EV are both a fire hazzard except the ICE is can be more readily extinguised.

 

[Spectric]

I wonder why people are ‘anti’ something.

Often a fear of the unknown or a case of they cannot believe or accept someone or something is just so stupid.