Best selling car 2023

[Vulcan]

I’ve seen this reported somewhere that the best selling car in Europe for 2023 is likely to be the Tesla Model Y.
It now seems it could be the Worlds best selling car according to this:

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/05/18/tesla-model-y-to-be-best-selling-car-in-world-in-2023/
Given the cost of their current cars you have to wonder how many of the rumoured $25K model they will sell when it comes out?

 

[worn thumbs]

I suspect that if BYD had the production capacity,they could wipe out several of the established car makers.They are selling their cars for a lot less outside Europe and are probably making lot of money on those they sell within Europe.There are several other Chinese companies that don't have the burdens of the heritage brands and they haven't really established a European foothold-yet.When the level of coercion to go electric becomes too much to bear I doubt that many of us will have the funds to walk into a Tesla showroom and commit to a Tesla Model Y.Even with a budget brand it will effectively suck billions of pounds or euros out of circulation,with a ripple effect on other sectors of the economy.

 

[RobNichols]

How much wood can you get in the back?

 

[Vulcan]

Worn Thumbs, I read a while ago that Audi are concentrating on ICE cars in Germany and will be having their EV’s made in China. I think VW are doing the same.

How much wood in a Tesla Model Y? I would say quite a lot judging by the one I saw in a car park recently. And of course there’s still room to put some shopping in the “Frunk”.

I’ve never liked the look of Tesla’s but the new Model 3 looks ok if you like that sort of thing.

 

[Steliz]

How much wood can you get in the back?

If you mean kindling for when the battery gets a bit hot then loads.

 

[danst96]

Tesla = the Apple of car manufacturers.

Good luck to all those with one who want to get it repaired anywhere other than a Tesla garage, good luck finding parts on the open market, good luck getting parts at a good price and good luck if musk decides to throw a wobbly and presses a button that makes your car for some weird stuff

Tesla & Apple are the masters of planned obsolescence

 

[Sideways]

Take a look at some of the youtube videos of Tesla's factories.
They have transformed the manufacture of cars with massive presses producing the chassis as a single die cast component. This adds strength and massively reduces complexity and assembly costs.
The migration to electric vehicles is going to see a number of the world's leading car makers go out of business. It's because they are failing to adapt and are being overtaken by new manufacturers who have simply changed the rules.
Tesla are in a position to drive down market prices year on year as they scale up. Their competitors will have to match prices if they want to sell anything and with higher costs there will come a point when they simply can't make a profit any more.
Tesla are making some parts required for accident repair available at cost.

I'm a huge fan of change and innovation when it is for the better. I don't find the Tesla a great drivers car but Musk, BYD et al have ripped up the rule book and we all needed that to happen.

 

[Spectric]

In many ways making an electric car should involve less components and sub assemblies, no gearbox / clutch, no exhaust system, no ICE along with all the ancillaries and it just boils down to an electric motor. The issue is still the power source, the way this is currently done is not ideal and what is needed are easily exchanged battery packs rather than wrapping a car round the batteries, puting the motors in the wheel hubs would simplify the transmission and make space for using battery packs but at the expense of unsprung mass. I can see the biggest challenge to all motor manufacturers in the west is going to be the asian producers, they will do to cars what they have done to machinery and so much more because a huge problem in the west is simply the high cost of labour and whilst we have been devaluing engineers the east have been doing the exact opposite and now have world class design teams.

 

[okeydokey]

Maybe Sinclair with his affordable car had the right idea, easy to charge

 

[artie]

Are people going to buy electric cars in sufficient numbers?

 

[Spectric]

Are people going to buy electric cars in sufficient numbers?

Winners and losers, in theory an electric car should be much cheaper than the ICE version but the batteries are what you are paying for, look at bare cordless tools versus complete with battery.

The ICE market cannot be replaced in any short time frame, even if we had enough cheap EV's then would it offset the loss of jobs in the petrochemical industry, the fuel retailers and the local garages not to mention the well paid jobs in the R&D for ICE which would become obsolete. At some point the current duty on fuel will move onto EV's raising the cost of ownership and the reduction in fuel usage will mean producing petrol and diesel becomes more expensive to cover the refinery running cost. The by products from petrochemical are essential to a wide range of goods and no petrol / diesel production then these goods need to come from elsewhere which will result in other challenges so where we might gain in one hand we will be losing with the other.

The end result will be the demise of private cars as we all move over to public transport which will need to drastically improve as our lifestyles face drastic change, the problem is we have overpopulated our little planet and pushed resources to the limit to end up where we are now.

 

[Rhossydd]

They have transformed the manufacture of cars with massive presses producing the chassis as a single die cast component. This adds strength and massively reduces complexity and assembly costs.

But made them horribly difficult to repair, hence why some insurers won't even insure them now.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...c-vehicle-owners-face-soaring-insurance-costs

 

[Spectric]

But made them horribly difficult to repair, hence why some insurers won't even insure them now.

Also the risk of fire puts up the premiums. Are they difficult to repair or difficult to diagnose faults considering they have shifted from a mechanical bias to more industrial electrical using voltages not previously encountered ? Until now a car in the workshop might crush you or cause burns but not electrocution.

 

[danst96]

The end result will be the demise of private cars as we all move over to public transport

This is all well and said and done when you live in the overpopulated island of the UK. A visit to Saskatchewan or many other huge provinces and states in North America and many other countries around the world where electric vehicles or public transportation are a non starter, would demonstrate this.

Unfortunately our governments do not seem to care about the details or what is actually good for the people, just the votes and what looks good on paper

 

[selectortone]

Also the risk of fire puts up the premiums

Another Internet myth. A bit of googling will prove that EVs are much less likely to catch fire than conventional cars. They also combust much more slowly, giving occupants more chance to escape. But don't take my word for it, do some research.

Even better, do that research before helping to perpetuate myths spread by ICE vested interests.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Are people going to buy electric cars in sufficient numbers?

Buyers of fleets get the carrot dangled.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

A bit of googling will prove that EVs are much less likely to catch fire than conventional cars.

They may well do far more damage when they do, though.

 

[Spectric]

Another Internet myth.

Insurers only need a whiff of a myth to raise premiums and ICE fires can be easily contained and extinguished compared to Lithium which can cause a lot of secondary damage to things around as it is much harder to extinguish, total submersion being the best.

 

[worn thumbs]

Are people going to buy electric cars in sufficient numbers?

They might need to be encouraged.Building enough generating capacity might be a useful start.

 

[Terry - Somerset]

The internal combustion engine has had 120 years of refinement to get design and manufacturing processes optimised for longevity at low cost - it still leaves much to be desired with servicing required every 10-20k, and multiple points of potential failure - bearings, gaskets, rings etc.

It needs a gearbox to cope with variable torque across the rev range and some form of "clutch" to isolate the drive from the wheels..

By contrast the EV has had a fraction of the high intensity R&D for battery, control systems and motors - there is probably significantly further to go and EV are already the equal or better than an ICE set up in most operating environments.

Even in the US ~80% of the population live in cities (UK ~85%) so this should not be a general barrier to EV ownership - although for some it will create challenges.

That the UK needs to improve both its green generating capacity and power distribution network is beyond doubt if EV ownership is to grow as anticipated, and gas heating replaced. This is a matter of intent rather than feasibility - with resolve it is entirely achievable within the next 20-30 years.

There is of course the possibility of fundamental changes to the current user owner model:

• autonomous pods (app based) negate the need for personal ownership. Vehicles could be operated up to (say) 20 hours a day (downtime for cleaning and recharging) vs currently owned averaging ~1 hour per day. Reduced congestion and parking needs.
• far better integrated rail and pod transport for longer journeys - or possibly charging on the move initially just on motorways.
• EV sharing - already happens in some larger cities. All these potentially reduce the costs and responsibilities associated with ownership.

Widespread adoption of EVs may even help the transition by operating as an energy store to feed back into the domestic need. A 60kw EV battery could typically provide domestic power for 2-4 days and certainly meet shorter term demand peaks.