They scammed you out of 100Kg of steel ! Your cabinet would have been better made out of 6mm plate.... The concrete block was the heaviest component at about 100 KG.
But it would have been harder to manoeuvre
Best router for £500 fish
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But it would have been harder to manoeuvre
Ollie78
Established Member
I have not read every comment in this extensive thread so risk repeating something.
Ergonomics is very important for a handheld router. If you can. try it out in person.
I say this as I used to use an old Dewalt (the elu style one) then it's very similar Trend brother. I actually used to get really painful hand cramps and stuff with them. The way the safety switch was oriented with the trigger was just hell for me. These routers are praised constantly as "classics" and loved by many. Sure they are robust and last. but for me they are just horrible to use.
Tritons are good for tables but I didn't rate it for handheld use so sold mine.
Now I have a big Makita ( much better on the hands but not perfect ) if I need the power but for 95 percent of everything I use a Festooll 1010, surprisingly powerful, perfect ergonomics and it stops immediately once you let the trigger off.
If I had no router at all I would probably get a 1400 watt Festool which I suspect would do everything I would need.
Ollie
Ergonomics is very important for a handheld router. If you can. try it out in person.
I say this as I used to use an old Dewalt (the elu style one) then it's very similar Trend brother. I actually used to get really painful hand cramps and stuff with them. The way the safety switch was oriented with the trigger was just hell for me. These routers are praised constantly as "classics" and loved by many. Sure they are robust and last. but for me they are just horrible to use.
Tritons are good for tables but I didn't rate it for handheld use so sold mine.
Now I have a big Makita ( much better on the hands but not perfect ) if I need the power but for 95 percent of everything I use a Festooll 1010, surprisingly powerful, perfect ergonomics and it stops immediately once you let the trigger off.
If I had no router at all I would probably get a 1400 watt Festool which I suspect would do everything I would need.
Ollie
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I had the same problem with my TRA001 and cured it by moving the dust extraction from the fence and connecting underneath to the router body,
They scammed you out of 100Kg of steel ! Your cabinet would have been better made out of 6mm plate
But it would have been harder to manoeuvre
The cabinet is sturdy enough and still took two of us to move it around. We didn't have to use the chain hoist like we did for the block and the table top, but it was not a one-person job.
The concrete block is to counter the outrigger on the slider. Without it, the saw would be risky to use when ripping full sheets of 19mm plywood. I suppose 100 KG of anything that fit in the space would work, but concrete is less expensive than steel.
Here is a photo of the concrete block in place. They were kind enough to form a lifting eye out of rebar when they made the block, as this is the perfect lifting point. The front of the saw is to the right and the outrigger is to the lower left.
Why not just use a foot switch, both hands firmly on the router and no issues. I also use one with my pillar drill, again to keep hands free.
sploo
Somewhat extinguished member
Recently I've mainly been using the router table for simple flush trimming and round over jobs, and have been using a vac hose in the port on the router body (where I'd generally favour extraction on the fence when doing large runs of rebate cuts) - so you might be onto something there.
Ollie78
Established Member
Could have done I guess, it was all site work so 110v and I didn`t own them myself they were supplied by the boss.
I wouldn`t have bought either of them if I had tried them out in a shop for 10 minutes. Hence my mention of ergonomics to the original poster. It never bothered some people at all.
Ollie
Nic Rhodes
Established Member
I should add though I use a 1400 in table and hand held, the 1100 router is well worth looking at and I think was tweaked recently. I am tempted to add it to the 'collection'. The worst I ever had was a Axminster White used in my Triton tables (2000 / Mk3 / dedicated router), never again. I bought the router and drill, both blew up!
danst96
Established Member
I think this is a bit of a simplistic view. The festool tool will outlive any of your trend/triton/DeWalt by several generations while being more satisfying to use.
I do agree there's an element of paying for the name but just like an Audi is more refined than a Peugeot, both get the job done but one is more enjoyable to use, will last a lot longer and offer better features
It is everyone to their own, for me I do not have brand loyality and totally disagree, having used Bosch, AEG, Makita and many other non festool brands over the last forty five years with no problems and with many other people using similar to earn a crust. Festool is to woodworking what apple is to phones, you either like them or hate them with little middle ground and the reason they get so much praise is just like anyone buying a new expensive car in that that they have to try and justify the cost. If you take away the dust extraction aspect then a Makita, Bosch or dewalt tracksaw can cut sheet goods all day long on site as well as an expensive festool tracksaw. I only own one festool tool and that wins the worst tool accolade by a mile for me, it is the xl700 domino and yes it cuts a nice hole for a domino but the quality of the machine is NOT outstanding when compared to say the dewalt biscuit joiner or many othertools, it is just comparable. Festool admits that the 700 is not always accurate because they have provided the sloppy setting, you dont drill a 10mm hole for a 6mm bolt to guarantee alignment. The dowelmax is much slower but way more accurate, I can place two rows of dowels along a length of wood and guarantee alignment, with dowels there is no room for error. Yes the domino can make nice holes to a set depth quickly but for me location, location, location is more important. With all the other festool products there are decent alternatives, but as yet not for the domino.
Good point, I've had extraction issues on my Triton in the router table(fault of the table,not the router). But i reckon you'd be better using both points to extract from, using a splitter(Y shape) to extract both above and below.
Doug71
Established Member
My only router is the Festool OF 1400 and I have used it for everything from routing out stair strings and fitting worktops to using a 2mm round over bit for knocking off the arris, it really is a good allrounder.
Just checked and I got it in 2005 so 17 years old now.
I started using Festool after bad experiences with Trend routers and extractors, as others have experienced they just didn't last in a professional environment.
When an arrow consistently misses the bullseye, do you blame the bow or the archer? I don't dispute that there could be problems with your DF 700, but if you had it checked at a competent service center and it is within specifications, then that leaves operator error. I have the DF 500 and DF 700 and have never had a problem with tenon alignment, even when using only the tight setting on long slabs for glue-up.
The "sloppy setting" is not to compensate for the machine, but for the operator. There are plenty of YouTube videos demonstrating the proper (or preferred) use of each of the width settings. The tight setting is used when the machine registration tabs are used for alignment. The loose setting is used when the user makes alignment marks along an edge and lateral accuracy is not an issue. This only affects the contact area between the narrow side of the tenon and the interior end grain of the mortise. The long grain of the mortise is in contact with the wide side of the tenon. Sometimes I don't even bother using glue on the tenons if there is enough edge to edge contact area on the slabs. This is the reason the Domino is called a loose tenon machine.
When I first started using the DF 500 and DF 700, I used the tight setting for every mortise in one edge and the first mortise in the second edge. I used the first loose setting for the remaining mortises in the second edge. As I gained more experience with the machines and my technique, I did not need the loose setting on the second edge.
Doug71
Established Member
@Spectric saw this and thought of you, it's talking about the DF500 but obviously the principles are the same for the 700, might be worth a read.
How to get the most from your Domino Jointer.
http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static...educed.pdf?token=cOwDNBxtbR9+G8f/AhJJyFyplNw=
How to get the most from your Domino Jointer.
http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static...educed.pdf?token=cOwDNBxtbR9+G8f/AhJJyFyplNw=
Hi Mike, could be the arrows but in this case the domino's are fine! There is something I am totally overlooking but no matter how many trials I do I cannot get to the bottom of it, the closest suggestion has been incompatability. Maybe it is a relationship that just does not work, me and the 700 don't get on and because I have had such a great one with the Dowelmax right out of the box I cannot get to grips with this domino.
In that article supplied by Doug it states " The ability to vary the slot width is key to many of the Domino machine attributes. "
Then this bit could be key " When you cut a tight mortise (width knob at the narrowest setting) at the same location on two different boards, that one
M&T joint will keep the two boards aligned as desired. Placing wider mortise slots along the same face of one of the two boards means the remaining domino mortise slots can be cut with some margin for positional error while still allowing the joint to close properly, a great advantage over dowel joints where the positional accuracy must be dead on or the joint simply will not close up at all "
In sheet goods having a wider slot to allow alignment is probably acceptable but in most cases having voids within a joint just seems so wrong, it feels like they have become acceptable just to make the domino acceptable rather than address the domino to make it fool proof.
From my experiments I can get a single domino to align and join two parts with acceptable edge alignment but it is hard work and not guaranteed which is something I cannot accept because I dont want to ruin a job on the last piece and have to remake it. It is an alignment issue because using the alignment jig from FC tools on sheet goods resolves all the issues and the fact there is a market for such a jig must show I am not the only person who has problems.
I may just have to put this down as a bad learning experience and move on, keep the dowlmax and also supplement it with the Jessem jig as well and get on with the job. I am going through that article doug provided and picking up some good points so will practice some more whilst using dowels for actual jobs until such time as it delivers what I expect otherwise it will be departing.
These show others who love dowels:
This video clearly shows the domino's capability on wooden structures like this bench. So it is capable and just needs taming.
Also interesting to note that on this size of timber he is using a single domino wheras I would be using five or six 10mm dowels.
Then this is more how I see a joint, more smaller domino's must produce a stronger joint than using fewer larger domino's.
Also interesting to note that on this size of timber he is using a single domino wheras I would be using five or six 10mm dowels.
Then this is more how I see a joint, more smaller domino's must produce a stronger joint than using fewer larger domino's.
Still have my elu 96 , several of my friends are constantly asking me to sell it but they got no chance . Festool agree good tools but far to expensive compared to trend , dewalt etc . I’ve got no issues paying for quality products and tools but festool and mayfell are too expensive and imo no better that the aforementioned brands .
Ollie78
Established Member
I do wonder what the price would be of the much revered Elu if it were manufactured now to the same standards it was then.
I suspect you might be approaching Mafell/ Festool money.
Ollie
Wilson joinery
Established Member
I don’t have a huge amount of experience with routers but I’ve got a makita RP2301 (1/2” with a 1/4” collet I believe - although I’ve never used it) and I love it. Loads of power and brilliant build quality.
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