Bessey? How do you talk yourself into it?

[Midnight]

seems like every project I build needs to use more clamps than the last one... despite having a fair collection of cheap sash clamps I can't remember the last time there were any left hanging by the time the last one was in place...
5 ally sash clamps for the cost of 1 Bessy... that mess gets nuts in a hurry when yer lookin at 20+ clamps in use in one operation...

if I'm doing panels, I get by with between 2 and 5 depending on the size; provided it's a fairly 2 dimentional glue up, I give it a half hour on the bench (more to suit my need to de-stress than for the job) then it's off the bench to stand upright someplace outa the way and onto the next one...

Looking at the size of their heads, I'd guess that maybe 6 of em would take up the same rack space as my 24 x 3ft'ers...

I've managed without em all this time... can't see that changing this side of a lottery win...

 

[engineer one]

before the men in white coats come for us all spending so much time thinking about spending money, lets look at things a different way 8)

when i started up again, i bought some cheap clamps from record,
a complete waste of time and money, the bits fell off, the bolts broke, and record at that time did not want to help out, let alone the retailer.

so when the bessey sale was on, i bought a couple, and for doing sheet work they are magic, they are not as unwieldy as sash clamps, it is so easy to adjust them, and the tightening stops you overtightening and then squeezing out the glue.

but i would say that if you have lots of clamps already stick with what you have, and be happy. however, if you are starting out, or re-starting, then check out the bessey's since i only build things no bigger than 1 metre high and 600 deep and about 600 wide, i find the 1000's work well for me, giving good stability and ease of manoeuvre. i think that they are easier to move around on the glue up, and they require less forward thinking about what and where you are clamping.

tony, if you are near wembley then you can try mine!!!!

passing thought, we all spend bundles on sharpening equipment, and add planes by the bucket load, but when it comes to doing the most important job, holding the bits of wood together to join them, we ***** at the prices, go figure :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

anyway i'm sold on them, so maybe i've said more than enough, not least because i do not earn a living doing it.

paul :wink:

 

[Alf]

passing thought, we all spend bundles on sharpening equipment, and add planes by the bucket load, but when it comes to doing the most important job, holding the bits of wood together to join them, we **** at the prices, go figure :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Given that dust extraction and safety equipment is often even lower down the shopping list I don't find that surprising at all. And the most important job? Hmm, not sure about that. Depends what exactly you're clamping and how good or bad your joints are perhaps? Maybe another one of those things that makes more sense if you're using a lot of sheet goods. Panel glue-ups are the thing that would make most sense to me to spend money on, and in that case if I'm gonna drop a bundle on clamping it'll be Planos for the wall (if anyone's asking with a view to my birthday :wink: )

Cheers, Alf

 

[LyNx]

LnNx wrote:
I think it's a label, gotta have

Bean wrote:
Is it another one of those "its expensive so I must buy it, and now that I have I must justify it" Things ??

Well, thanks for that - I post an honest opinion in what I thought was the spirit of this forum and get insulted for my trouble.

It's nothing to do with what you said or anyone said. It's the whole concept behind the "i really need one of those, when you don't". 9 times out of 10 it's "i want one", rather than "i need one".

Andy

 

[Chris72]

How can something thats so right, be so wrong!?
I started off with four K bodies and now have TWENTY!.I find it helps to shut my eyes when it comes to handing over the cash.
That aside they are just the best and a joy to use-no regrets!
Chris

 

[Adam]

Heres a good example. Two old record? Paramo? Clamps and two Besseys. The besseys are on the bottom for two reasons - they have more "contact" so stay upright as I lower the wood into position. Secondly, I can relax as there won't be rust marks underneath. (Thirdly I can quickly tighten them up at the critical moment - but thats not so relevant on this particular glueup). Now the old "traditional" types - I have to wipe the glue away unless I want rust marks on the wood. They don't "slide" to fit very easily. I've lost both pins so an using a bolt and a screw - which endlessly slip out onto the floor. The "T" bar on the tightener - means I have to constantly lift it through to the opposite side whilst tightening.

Heres another reason I hate my blue clamps. When tightening them up when close together- they constantly "bash" against each other. Annoying, but not life threatening :roll:

Once again, besseys on the bottom - my "reference" clamps to keep everything flat.

These ones with a sprung loaded pin are a marked improvement - but boy they are soooo heavy....

This says a lot - shiny steel - or rust!

Overall I rate my besseys - I've got a couple of smaller ones - and find them much more usefull than my "quick-clamps" for example. I'd happily replace the sash clamps I have currently when money allows. Sure, the glueups work with the current ones, but I hate wielding the huge heavy lumps of metal around - it'll only be a matter of time before I drop one on something important. The slide annoys me - espeically when I have to get a hammer to tap it along, in the middle of a glueup, as I didn't notice a bit of dried glue at the start, and the pins (or lack of) are a constant source of irritation, as is leaning over to keep flipping the "T" bar tighteners when they are close to something - especially in a small workshop where I have to reach over the from the bottom end of the clamp.

I rate at 10 out of 10 for Besseys. As other people mentioned, glueups, are my "worst" part of the project - so every little thing that makes it simpler is a real bonus.

Adam

Adam

 

[dedee]

Tony, interesting thread in which I take more than just a passing interest.

Perhaps the thing to do is to buy them one at a time (or get them bought for you). Just supposing you asked your folks and the inlaws to buy you you one for Xmas and one for your birthday. In a year a couple of years you would have plenty.

Andy

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for that Adam, the strongest argument so far and the point about the T bar handles clashing is very true.

So, only advantages I see are:
They stand up on their own (nice, but the wall supports my cramps)
Handles don't clash when close together (nearly worth the money on its own!!)
No pins to place in holes in cramp body (no problem having pins as mine are attached by chains and I drilled holes half way betwen original holes for finer adjustment)
Lighter than sash (good point as my sash cramps are even heavier than yours due to T profile along length)
Don't stain wood (neither do my sash cramps as they are painted and/or plated)

Andy,

Thing is, i am in the rare position of having a couple of hundred quid to spend now and I have all the tools I need or want; apart from a few more clamps (of course).

I really was about to buy Bessey when I got paralysis of the click finger when I foolishly looked at the price

 

[LyNx]

Tony, go for it then mate. As i look around our workshop i don't see any, and that may show that the 50 odd people on the shop floor don't need them.

Just putting my point across. Anyway, i have 4 of the cheaper uni-klamps and they are pretty good for £7 each.

Andy

 

[Sgian Dubh]

I've used the Bessey sash type clamps. They're good, but not good enough for me to want to spend what they ask. The Bessey F cramps are a different matter and I've got a load of those. I use those in preference every time over just about any other brand, and also in preference to heavy cast iron G cramps.

Nowadays I use aluminium sash cramps almost exclusively for assembling wide solid wood panels and pretty much for all mortise and tenon or carcase/ box dovetail type joinery. They are nice and light and don't easily distort structures due to their light weight.

One type of aly sash cramps can be got at Axminster, http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/3/prod ... -21708.htm
These aren't very good in terms of quality compared to a brand I bought in the US, being mostly monkey metal and poorly engineered, but in a single person workshop where they can be looked after they are very useful.

They're pretty cheap too at less than £8 each plus shipping, so are reasonably economical even if there's a breakage. Capacity is a bit limited at four feet and under.

In truth if you need more pressure than you can get on in most applications with aluminium sash cramps you probably need to do something to rectify faults in the joinery. Slainte.

 

[Anonymous]

Tony, go for it then mate.

If only it were that easy Andy :roll: 4 K clamps or 12 Sash cramps for less money :-k

No contest - sash cramps it is :wink:

I think Bessey and Festool will remain unowned by this woodworker unless the lottery win comes my way when I will buy the Besseys

 

[LyNx]

Now, if i was going for sash cramps then i may opt for the heads only so you can vary the length to suit the avalable timber. I think Alf uses these?

Andy

 

[ike]

Along come Bessey and suddenly everything else is c**p. How does that work? Previous generations of craftsmen (sorry - craftspersons) managed well enough. As with the majority my tools have been acquired over a longish period so I have a motley collection of pretty decent (as in not monkey metal) Record 'T' sash, G's and some Wolfcraft QR's. They do a perfectly adequate job every time.

Are Bessey's worth it? That's an impossible question IMHO. Depends if you're less than flush, loaded, tight, resourcefull, obsessive-compulsive, impulsive.......etc.

Ike

 

[Chris Knight]

Mod hat on here:-

This thread has had a long enough run. If you want to say something different on the subject of clamps, please start another thread.

 

[Alf]

Now, if i was going for sash cramps then i may opt for the heads only so you can vary the length to suit the avalable timber. I think Alf uses these?

Yep. Personally I find the standard metal bar sash cramps just awful, so if that's your benchmark I suppose Besseys really are worth the extra. The heads are great; you can make the bars any length you like, the heads where you like on the bar for balance, and they sit on the bench top ready and waiting for the work without falling over. Against them I'd say the old tommy-bar clashing business is the main hassle (although I find the in-line handles on my F-clamps are harder work to tighten, so you win some, you lose some), and of course you have to set the heads up at the right distance before you glue. But hey, that's what the dry run is for, isn't it?

Cheers, Alf

Edit: Ooops, sorry, guv. I was in mid-compose when you posted.

 

[Bean]

Argee

Quote:
LnNx wrote:
I think it's a label, gotta have

Bean wrote:
Is it another one of those "its expensive so I must buy it, and now that I have I must justify it" Things ??

Well, thanks for that - I post an honest opinion in what I thought was the spirit of this forum and get insulted for my trouble.

no offence intended as I also posted my honest opinion

Bean

 

[Anonymous]

Now, if i was going for sash cramps then i may opt for the heads only so you can vary the length to suit the avalable timber. I think Alf uses these?

Andy

Hadn't really considerede those, but not a bad idea and I like the flexibility in length

I wonder if one gets much flex in the wooden 'bar' ? Alf?

 

[LyNx]

Haven't used them myself, but what if the bar was a rip of 25 Ply at about 70mm wide??

Andy

 

[Mike.C]

What about these pipe clamp kits from Axminster?

http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/7/prod ... -32094.htm

With the optional pipe kit and couplers you can make 7 different lengths. You could also buy your own 3/4" pipe which works out a bit cheaper.

They also sell these sash clamp kits, which are £16.80 for 2 sets. These can also be built into various length's.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/name/cramps/ ... -29527.htm

Again i am sure that if you purchased your own bars locally they would be much cheaper.

What is wrong with Bessey's Uniklamps? They may not compare with the K-Body, but are they any better than clamps from other manufacturers?

Cheers

Mike

 

[Alf]

I haven't found enough flex in the bar for it to be a problem, but if it was it's not difficult to make bars with a deeper cross section. Hmm, how about two lots of holes and clamping four panels at a time...? Two each side? :lol: Mind you, they'd have to be flippin; thin or you'd never lift it... :shock: Not sure about the ply; anyone tried it?

Cheers, Alf