Bench saw fence position when ripping

[moz]

Probably about a century behind in terms of the riving knife, for example. Even their version the so called 'splitter' is often just a fixed affair whereas it's known that it is much safer for the knife to follow the curve of the blade, be adjustable and be adjusted within 8mm of the blade for all its length above the table. You may as well ask why makers in the world's largest etc. etc. omit riving knives, guards, brakes, retractable fences and so on. That notorious legal decision about the Saw Stop is all the more perverse when you see what a state the rest of their saws are in.

John

 

[The Bear]

My riving knife is american. Its much longer than standard to keep the cut open longer. It follows the curve of the blade. It can be adjusted to within 8mm of the blade at least. It has 2 sprung sets of teeth to catch any wood kicking back. It is also 10 years old.

Just want to keep the arguement balanced and accurate


Mark

 

[moz]

My riving knife is american. Its much longer than standard to keep the cut open longer. It follows the curve of the blade. It can be adjusted to within 8mm of the blade at least. It has 2 sprung sets of teeth to catch any wood kicking back. It is also 10 years old.

Just want to keep the arguement balanced and accurate


Mark

That sounds great but it would be more impressive if it were 50 years old. The point though surely is that they are only just catching up and provide few models of good table saw safety design. Resurrecting this thread because I received this FWW email.

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/307 ... way-to-rip

A game where you have to find the faults, prompted by a contributer nearly losing an eye because of kickback. Apparently, having a full length fence, no riving knife and no guard didn't contribute to the causes of this accident.

John

 

[Steve Maskery]

He's also wearing a ring. I wonder if he is wearing eye and ear protection? At least his cuffs are buttoned, although short sleeves would be better.

No guard, long fence. What a missed opportunity. It never ceases to amaze me that FWW, in so many ways the flagship WW publishers in the world, get safety issues so wrong, even when they try to do it right. The problem then is that people regard what FWW as right, so it must be OK, when it most certainly isn't.
S

 

[tjwoodms]

Im a it late on this

you should NEVER set your fence past the mid point of the saw blade when ripping this way the timber dosnt pinch the blade and cause throwback.

Not sure if this is true but one of my customers told me a story a few years back he was ripping and got throwback. The work piece hit him so hard he doubled over and nutted the saw gaurd very scarry

 

[Mike.C]

My sip saw has a full length fence and I much prefer it over the previous shorter fence as you get so much support for the piece to reference against.

I was cutting some oak the other week that was trying to bind onto the blade but it was just getting stuck on the riving knife. So I really think the riving knife is enough on its own to do the job.

Chems I have the 12" SIP and with it came both a long and short fence. The short one is attached to the longer one when ripping. Didn't you get the shorter one with your model?

Cheers

Mike

 

[Froggy]

I'll tell you something guys...I'm reading this with more thoroughness than most as last night I put my hand in my Kity planer and am missing 3 finger ends this morning
There's nothing in my workshop that isn't going to get a good H&S check now. I thought I was fairly H&S conscious before yesterday, but it's just gone up another level :!:

 

[ondablade]

Hi Froggy, here's hoping there's not too much damage, and that all will be OK.

Pardon me for using your post as a platform, but the words 'put my hand in' and your response 'I thought I was fairly H&S conscious before yesterday, but it's just gone up another level' brought to mind exactly what i've been trying to communicate on the topic of safety in this thread. (i don't know what happened in your case though)

Of course good guarding and equipment and correct practices are fundamental to the level of risk inherent in a working environment - but the bottom line is that barring wholly automated and enclosed machines all it takes is one wrong move/ a moment's inattention for the worst to happen.

Without a very high level of ongoing care, skill, cop-on and awareness technical solutions can't prevent accidents happening. It needs to be clearly understood that having the right 'hardware etc isn't enough, it has to be used correctly too.

It's not even like being smart can prevent an accident of itself, it's as much or more about staying present or 'with it' all the time. In these scatty and head wrecking times it's tough to maintain the steady approach and calm mental state that facilitates this....

I'm not seeking to trigger an argument here, but what i am repeating is that the motivation and mindset of the person working is the primary issue - everything else (including the decision to arrange safe methods and equipment) follows from this.

Good information is also an important input, and this has to be communicated. Which is the 'safety' role. But step over the line into preaching and compulsion and all that happens is that people either stop listening, or if unavoidable drop into unthinking moron mode...

 

[Froggy]

Ian you're bang on with your comments, and I know my statements 'I thought I was fairly H&S conscious...' and 'put my hand in' appear to be a contradiction in terms...To explain, I always try to follow safe working practices (i.e. use of guards, googles, masks etc.) and this is what i was doing yesterday whilst working with the planer. When I finnished for the day and lowered my gaurd (literally as it turned out :roll: ) I decided to look at a little problem with the planer. I had to take off a side panel, which meant taking off the fence, which meant taking off the blade gaurd. At this point the machine wasn't on....so no problem. After a bit of tweaking I wanted to see the mechanism in action and turned the machine on (without any gaurds...Iknow, I know ....only too well now) and at this point, engrossed in the problem I put my hand on the planer for support and lost the ends of 3 fingers :shock:
It's great to have safe working practices, but one as to be vigilant and concentrate ALL the time. Easier said than done but the results of failing to do so can be painful or worse.
TAKE CARE EVERYONE

 

[moz]

What you are saying makes sense, Ian but, while I don't want to re-start the argument, I have to say that I fundamentally disagree with your point.

The problem is that it is impossible to ensure 100% attention 100% of the time. Familiar with the 'S**t!, how did I get here' syndrome while driving? I'm afraid that you just have to accept that there will be moments, however brief, where attention has waned or wandered. It's really no use saying to people you just have to concentrate all the time. It's not enough on its own. What protects you is sticking rigidly to good habits which have been proven to reduce the likelihood of accidents. This, in conjunction with the best efforts we are capable of to stay alert, is the best protection.

But what makes the 'stay with it' argument (as opposed to the 'stay safe' argument) redundant is that these things all happen too quickly and your 'mindset' won't stop that big piece of wood making contact with your skull. This thread began with a question about rip-saw fence position and I hope we should all now be aware of the best position when ripping solid timber. Please don't defend an indefensible position on this by pursuing an argument that safe practices are subservient to intelligent analysis.

Froggy didn't hurt himself because he's stupid or because he wasn't concentrating, it was because he was doing something out of the ordinary and without the precautions he normally takes. Hope it wasn't too bad Froggy and here's wishing you a speedy recovery.

John

 

[Froggy]

Thanks John.

 

[ondablade]

Owww! Will your fingers be OK Froggy? I was going to joke about bleeding on valuable work, but thought the better of it.

More seriously, it's so easy to drop our guard and get hurt - even on guarded equipment. I was lucky enough to get away with just a tiny touch on a finger tip last year when i unthinkingly reached across to pick a piece of wood up from the RHS of the fence.

I think we're in agreement Moz, there's no grounds for argument. No question but that once it happens it's too late.

All i'm trying to communicate is that when it comes to getting hearts and minds genuinely engaged on the safety topic (or any other involving change) people don't respond well to the sort of tone that comes from the more zealous (if well intentioned) appraoch - they tend to switch off, or to resist or go into automatic mode....

Ian

 

[Froggy]

Hi Ian,

Two of my fingers will almost certainly be ok, the other is a bit of a mess and it's early days yet, fingers crossed
The thing is you can't gaurentee it wont happen again no matter how much you concentrate, but if we strive to improve safety we can gaurentee to reduce the risk.

 

[antonello]

The Trappists Monks salute themselves with this words: “ Brother, remember: you have to die.”

When I switch on the computer and come to UKW it seems to me to hear this words: ”Brother, remember: woodworking is dangerous.”

Very useful.

So, yesterday, having to halve in two some strips

first of all I made a featherboard....

My warmest wishes for a quick and complete recovery to Froggy.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Antonello
Your featherboard is good. Your short fence is good, but not not short enough and therefore not good enough. Your absence of a riving knife and guard, however.....
S