bench (and sharpening)

[Lons]

newer techniques have their merits also and if they allow people to get on with actual woodwork then that is a good thing.

They may have merits but allowing people to get on with actual woodwork certainly isn't one of them - they are slow and inconvenient compared to the quick swipe on oil-stone and strop.

I don't agree with the second quote though it is a method I use at times!

Whatever is quickest and most effective for the skill and confidence of the individual is the best method for them and oilstones are not always the answer.

I have lots of methods. Various oilstones, wetstones, granite slab, abrasives stuck to mdf, a buffing . sanding wheel set up, a Tormek T7 and I confess, though reasonable proficient, I'm not an expert with any of them.
I can produce a decent edge with most and what I use to achieve that depends on a number of factors.

How much time is available. eg 10 minutes, an hour, half a day? The state of the tools to be sharpened. Whether I'm in my workshop or out on site and what state of mind I am in.

If in the mood, I can quite happily have a full sharpening session but mostly I don't have time and just want to make something. If a machine can reduce sharpening time and produce a good edge there's nothing wrong with that and no basis to condem anything that works no matter how right you think you are!
Your "quick swipe and strop" works for you which is great but it certainly isn't for everyone and there's no definitive method!

Bob

 

[DTR]

People are different I guess, they approach things in different ways, and different ways can get equally good and efficient results.

Nail on the head.

 

[Jacob]

http://paulsellers.com/2013/01/question ... -fanciful/

 

[Jacob]

As was the trad bench; yes not for everybody but it's a bloody good place to start, being easy to make and very effective as a general purpose bench.

What would be helpful, Jacob, would be some pictures of how you hold the work on your trad bench when undertaking the numerous operations involved in cabinetmaking. I have found a very basic bench, such as the type you favour, seriously lacking and have built and modified my bench so that it is far more versatile in the way that I can hold work.

Cheers :wink:

Paul

You add whatever bits n bobs you require. Mines double sided with two vices, one with a dog. I'd tend to use this dog against a lath nailed on or against stops formed from dropping lengths of scrap across the well e.g. a length of 2x3" etc.
I've one 1 1/2" square dog near one end against which I plane, or rest a lath against it with the other end pinned, as a longer stop e.g. for a wider board. I've got a few short sash cramps and these work as hold downs. There's also a proper hold own set in to the top.. The apron is very useful for clamping stuff or just for using a clamp as an end support. I also use saw horses or an ammo box as end supports for bigger stuff held in the vice. There are 4no 4"x8"x8" blocks to slip under the feet if I wanted a higher bench. There's a dowel plate set in at one end. Various holes in which pegs can be dropped as stops. etc etc. Could go on all night!
Basically no problem holding anything; it's not at all basic once you start adding little mods to suit your purpose. There are lots of nail/screw holes all over it but as long as these are tidy and below surface level they aren't a problem.

PS then there are add-ons such as bench hooks. I've got a short pair and a long pair. I sometimes set these on opposite sides of the beam so that a long piece can be cranked firmly against them etc.

And there is Paul Sellers' sash cramp device http://paulsellers.com/2012/07/workbenc ... -the-dogs/

 

[marcus]

I think a lot of this discussion really comes down to the fact that people have different levels and patterns of energy, and so arrange things in different ways to suit their particular needs. For example some people are quite 'high energy', or their energy comes in a fairly steady stream, whereas others have less energy, or their energy tends to come in waves rather than evenly throughout the working week.

If your energy levels are relatively steady then you may not worry so much about fittings like bench dogs and end vises, and may wonder why people would bother with such things. You are able to plough on day in and day out, and it feels fine.

If on the other hand you are someone whose energy comes in waves, then using your bursts of energy to make things really well that will save you energy for those times when there is less available to you is a wise investment. As is making them of good materials and well enough to last for a lifetime so you won't have to do them again.

It may not seem like that much energy to get an appropriate sash cramp and put it into the vise and adjust it to hold a panel, but it takes more time and energy than it does to use dogs and an end vise. At least in my experience, having tried both ways quite extensively. Taken on its own that little difference is unimportant, but added together with the all the other labour and energy saving devices that one may come up with it makes a very big difference to how much energy it takes to do things.

When I started woodworking I was very much in the 'Paul Sellers' camp of making do with the simplest stuff, and was quite proud of it. At college we had plywood topped benches and if we wanted to, say, hold a panel on them we hunted around for some scraps and nailed them round the panel. This worked well enough, but over the years I have found myself drifting away from this minimalist approach and spending time getting more efficient systems in place and, taken together, these have made a massive difference to the ease, quality and enjoyment of the work. It just suits my rhythm better to work this way. More importantly it has freed up energy to focus on the finer and more subtle aspects of what I am doing.

I think that a lot of the arguments people have about ways of doing things are born from not realising just how different people are from each other in quite subtle but fundamental ways, and how much this affects the way we all experience the world. Our inherited character and physical traits, and our differing strengths and weaknesses, encourage us to adopt different approaches to dealing with the challenges of life and work. I'm inclined to think that the world would be a happier and more harmonious place if we got that about each other!

 

[Paul Chapman]

And there is Paul Sellers' sash cramp device http://paulsellers.com/2012/07/workbenc ... -the-dogs/

I tried out that method of holding work back in the 1970s when I didn't have a tail vice. While it appears to be a good idea, I found that it didn't work very well. I've since concluded that it's best to design your bench to suit the type of work you do and the way you work.

Cheers :wink:

Paul