Being ripped off

[scrimper]

Have to be honest I am confused too! If you go to a craft fair to sell your goods does it matter if 100 different people make purchases and you are all sold out or 10 people or just one person buys the lot? Or would you stop selling when 50% of the stock had gone? I could understand you not wishing to sell your stock off on the cheap but at the full price does it matter who buys it?

If I went to a craft fair and sold the lot I think I would be highly delighted and be busy making more stuff and perhaps increase my prices a little the next time.

Lol Sort of reminds me of a strange bloke called Ron Summerfield who run an antiques shop in Cheltenham, his shop was chock full of stuff and he hated selling anything! When he died in 1989 the firemen had to take his body out through the window as there was too much stock in the shop to get past, it took 10 people 4 months to sort through the stock!

 

[Chippygeoff]

Interesting questions. I have been attending craft fairs for many years now and it's something I enjoy and it's a way of selling the things I make. With regard to the lady that wanted to buy my entire stock. You have to imagine the scene. There are round about 300 craft fair stalls in a very large aircraft hanger and outside of the hanger there are many other events and attractions for the thousands of people that come on a regular basis, many travelling hundreds of miles. the isles are heaving with people all day and at times there can be an many as six customers waiting to be served so I have very little time to spend with individual customers. This particular venue is not my main venue but it is one where I can take the most money.

At this time of the year I am spending up to 14 hours a day in the workshop going flat out and at times it is not a pleasure, especially when making many of the same item but it's something I have to do in order to live. I can only produce so much stock in one day and there are times when I just have to walk away from it and do something completely different. If you have never been in this position then please don't comment on something you know nothing about.

On an average day I would have with me round about 400 items and a third of these would be on display on the tables and display stands and as an item is sold I replace it from spare stock. It is nothing for me to go away at the end of the day with a dozen orders for various things and these have to be made and the customer pickes them up the following week or if they are a tourist, which is often the case, I post them. In the areas where I attend craft fairs there are high levels of unemployment so I have to keep my prices low. A friend in Manchester can sell the same item as me for almost double what I charge and if I had a stall around the London area I could treble what I charge here. It's all swings and roundabouts but at the end of the day I am happy with the profit I make. If we take an average crfat fair I will probably sell between 20 and 50 items but I still have enough stock left for the next craft fair a few days later but in the meantime I am slaving over a red hot scroll saw trying to replce the items I sold at the previous craft fair and this is the busiest time of year and will remain so up until Christmas. Things won't pick up again until the last week of March but from Christmas till March I am still working long hours building up stock.

As I said, it can get tedious and boring at times and I am only one person knocking the stuff out. I have had to give up my web site as it got to much. I just could not handle the volume of work coming my way and that's why I never sold all my stock to that lady as I always have to maintain some sort of stock level otherwise I stand a very good chance of losing my space at the various venues I attend. To the craft fair organisers space is money and if i did not turn up for a few weeks my space would be allocated to someone on the waiting list wanting to get in.

 

[valvoltec]

If you are really that busy,try selling 50 things for £2 instead of 100 at a £1.
Consider outsourcing work asking on here,or a co operative with another woodworker.
Review what you make,how much it costs,and the man hours involved.
People who attèend craft fairs have disposable income,if what you make appeals it will sell.
You tell us you can sell at 3 times the price in another area,then do it.
What you are now saying is that you are offering a service to the community,selling things that you spend many hours making at a reduced cost,because you enjoy selling at craft fairs,but you don't enjoy making as the workload and pressure has become too much.But better this than supply one vendor with toys,that would buy all you can make for your full retail price.The whole point of the craft fair is too sell,things for a profit.
My own guess is that you are a cash only cottage industry,400 items that you take 3 month to make.
Gives you 133 sales a month,the average price wold have to be in the order of £20 for your gross turnover to be£2600 less materials and costs, of say £10 an item would give you an income of about £15k a year,Most of us would have give the lady offering us full retail on our stock which at my figures would need to be 400 x £20 or £8k a big hand shake and take the money at run.
The whole thing and your figures make no since,Six customers deep at times and yet only 20 to 50 sales in a day from 1 thousands of visitors,working up too14 hours a day,at 40 sales a day it would be 10 craft fairs worth of stock,.I can make most Sundays 50 to a £100 pound profit at my local car boot on a £10 pound stall,craft fairs were £25 twenty years ago,bigger events were £50 to £100.However you choose to sell and what your margins are whatever other sources of income you have this does not appear to be a viable venture or a fair return

 

[Chippygeoff]

Valvoltec.Voltec. I would not want to appear rude but I feel you have very little idea of craft fairs. First of all I am happy in what I am doing, and yes, it does get tedious at times. When I switched from scroll sawing as a hobby to making it into a small business I did everything that any small business would do. I went on a business course, spent time with the inland revenue and ploughed many thousands of pounds into workshop equipment, materials etc. Being disabled I am not dependant on what I earn at craft fairs but it certainly helps to live a better life, be debt free and have no worries. Also if I need to buy a new scroll saw or some other machine it is not a problem.

Yes, I can sell at three times the price in other areas but would you get up at 3am in the morning, travel 300 miles and get back in the early hours of the following day for what will be a 4 to 5 hour event. I don't think so. All my crfat fairs are within 3/4 of an hours drive from home. At the venues we have many tourist and I sell a huge amount of things because the prices are very reasonable and I am more than happy with the profit I make. I am not a greedy man out for every penny I can squeeze out of people. Last week we had an exhibition going on in the smaller hall and a guy there had a large range of wood work that he had made from the trees that were cleared to make room for the new hall. The wood was lovely, the workmanship was superb and over a week at the exhibition he sold precisely zilch, not a single item. Why, because he was to expensive. He had chopping boards on his stall at £38 each, small simple lidded boxes, £59 each. Each day he had travelling expenses and each day he had to pay for his pitch and yet he did not make a penny profit.

Yes, some venues can charge £100 for the day. I pay £5 and I have 2 6ft tables for that, sometimes 3. No two days are the same, one day I may sell 50 items and another day I may only sell a few. It's all down to who comes through the doors. I sell items ranging in price from £5 to £75. As I said, I am happy with the way things are, yes I am under pressure sometimes but it's all part of the game.

 

[Claymore]

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[Chippygeoff]

Thanks Brian, some positive feedback at last and from someone who knows what they are talking about. It does not matter what craft fair someone attends and it could be anywhere in the UK. There will be times when it's like watching paint dry. I am very fortunate to be at the venues that I attend, they are prime venues and very cheap. This time of the year is very busy and will remain so up until Christmas. It is not easy to get a regular pict as I have, often there is a long waiting list. I have been at my regular venue now for several years and all the stall holders are like one big family, we help each other out, watch the stalls near us if the people want to go to the loo or make a cup of tea.

Brian, there is no need for flask at my main venue, the hall was demolished and then rebuilt, we have a super modern kitchen with an urn and every thing you would expect to find in a kitchen. The organiser lets us in to do whatever we want and even provides snacks. 2 hours before lunch one of the ladies comes round with a menu and we tell her what we want and the pub next door brings the food in around 1pm, piping hot.

 

[Claymore]

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[valvoltec]

I don't quite understand any of this,you post comments about your business giving you small returns for a large investment of time and tooling and rant about rip off Britain and the price of everything.
I offer advice and encouragement based on running several small business.I have attended and sold at craft fairs in connection with one of them.
When suggested to you that you alter change or take a new approach you then find excuses not to do,too far,too many hours,blah blah.
Best of all you jump to the defence of your current business model,what you were moaning about to start off with.
Other people post that indeed you don't seem to have an argument.
I was interested in your craft fair subject and I recall making a reasonable profit from them.
Thanks for sharing with us wishing you all the Best for the future in your Craft fair endeavours.

 

[powertools]

I don't quite understand any of this,you post comments about your business giving you small returns for a large investment of time and tooling and rant about rip off Britain and the price of everything.
I offer advice and encouragement based on running several small business.I have attended and sold at craft fairs in connection with one of them.
When suggested to you that you alter change or take a new approach you then find excuses not to do,too far,too many hours,blah blah.
Best of all you jump to the defence of your current business model,what you were moaning about to start off with.
Other people post that indeed you don't seem to have an argument.
I was interested in your craft fair subject and I recall making a reasonable profit from them.
Thanks for sharing with us wishing you all the Best for the future in your Craft fair endeavours.

I guess Chipy is too busy to reply. I was interested in his colour fill posts but we never had an update to his progress on that either.
I would and I assume that many others would like a link to a busy craft fair that only charges £5 per day for up to 3 6ft tables but I doubt that we will get a reply for that either.

 

[jonluv]

Regarding Craft Fair costs, just had an email this morning about a Christmas show last year £10 this year £18 --- did not even bother to answer the promoter
I wish my pension would increase by 80 percent!

 

[valvoltec]

Paying between £6 and 10 for Car boot pitch.
Paid around £25 years ago for craft fair in hotels round Derbyshire
Needed to take £350 on the day to cover everything.

 

[razornut]

May I chime in. Yes we are ripped of. To the extent it leaves graze marks on our souls. Nothing I can do about that, however. When I have restored a razor hopefully sell some. Or a brush or two, I'm not in it to make a living at it. It is a hobby. My time is my own. I actually take pleasure when someone says " That's beautiful how much " the fact someone actually is prepared to part with their hard earned for something I made or restored is a buzz. A vindication if you will that I didn't waste my time.

 

[Claymore]

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[scrimper]

Regarding Razers post above its a new thing to me and unusual hobby/subject... although with my shaky hands I don't think i will be swapping my electric shaver! lol
Any chance of you posting some photos of the razers/brushes? love to see others work.
Cheers
Brian

Indeed I had to read the post twice before I realised that razornut was actually restoring razors! Never heard of that as a hobby before, as you say it would be nice to see some pictures.

 

[razornut]

Ok gentlemen. Here is a razor and a brush the brush. Is my first attempt at wood turning the razor was also my first full restoration the scales (handle) are a set I made. The blade is a Joseph elliot 5/8ths full hollow circa 1850 both woods are coolabah Burr the lighter part of the scales is the sapwood. I hope you like em

 

[scrimper]

Well Razor, what can I say that is brilliant work, what an absolutely amazing standard of finish I just don't know how you could achieve such a high standard I certainly could not come even close!

When you commented earlier about razors I thought you had used the word meaning something else? But now I see what you have done I can fully understand why you restore razors. Top marks to you.

John

 

[novocaine]

looks lovely but the important question is what does it shave like?

I use a modern straight or more typically a shiv/shavette (because I'm lazy), which isn't anywhere near as pretty as what you have created but does a damn fine job, I hope yours is of a similar nature, it looks like it anyway. perhaps your new found turning skills could be put to use for a dish and strop handle too so you get the full set? the scroll saw would do a pretty fine job of a box for it all too.

what are you using as a finish? creams and balms are pretty hard on most plasticised finishes.

 

[boysie39]

Must say I do like your work. Never seen pics. of anyone else doing this type of work . When I was a lad the Safety Razor was making it's mark on the market ,so I never had to use the "Open Razor" but my Dad and my brothers used them . I did over the years have the luxury of having a few shaves in barbers. I seem to remember that it was a very personal piece of kit.

Thank you for showing ,I hope you will post more when you have some .

 

[Claymore]

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[razornut]

It would appear I have hijacked this thread. That was not my intention so I hope chippygeoff would accept my apologies. So I think it only proper to continue this thread else where so I'll open a new thread called different ideas show and tell in the projects section.