Beginner woodworker - Power tool advice.

[fishamble]

Hello all,
I am an aspiring woodworker and am posting to get some advice. I have done some very basic woodwork in the past. This involved building a small table with a few mortise and tenon joints. I did this several years ago, in school and had literally no access to the power tools.
I had hoped to enrol in a woodwork class but i don't have access to any in my area. I have already purchased a good selection of hand tools to cover all the basics.
I would like to build a fitted book shelf for the living room. I know exactly how i want it to look and have drawn the plan in sketchup. It is very basic and will only require me to cut straight lines and ten dado's(or is it trench?)

My question is which power tools should i go for to serve me during this project and the subsequent projects?
Cheap jigsaw or circular saw? Router?
At the moment i have the Makita 4351FCT Jigsaw (£130) and the Bosch GKF 600 Palm Router(£130) in mind, but do not know i am spending too much or too little, or whether my money would be spent better elsewhere.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/currency/EUR/product-Makita-4351FCT-Jigsaw-656300.htm
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?currency=EUR&pf_id=781470&changecurrency=GBP

 

[Chems]

If I were you I'd buy a good quality Circular Saw (with a guide rail) and a cheap router for the dado's.

I've had a cheap Focus router since I started and although I now have a big £230 router the cheap one still sees more use.

Don't know why you'd want a jig saw for this sort of work, my jig saw is only bought out for rough curve work.

 

[eggflan]

I would never dream of spending that sort of money on a jigsaw :shock: B&Q had a makita jigsaw in for £41 today :wink: my jigsaw is the least used tool in my workshop .

You could spend your cash in other areas like a second hand table saw and a cheap router :wink:

And welcome

 

[fishamble]

8)
This is why i came to you good people for advice. I have a friend who worked at joinery about ten years ago. He told me a circular saw was only for ripping plywood on building sites, and that a jigsaw would cut perfectly straight lines as well as curves when i graduate to more detailed work.
On the other hand he also told me that oak is a softwood and pine is a hardwood. That is why i am aking here.
Ideally i would like to get a table saw but the cost, even second hand, is prohibitive.
So a router is a must, but i do not need to spend that much?

 

[eggflan]

Everyone has different veiws about what you would need to start with , you will get conflicting advice on here also :lol:

IMO you dont need to spend a fortune on the latest greatest make of this and that , it all depends what you are using the tool for , if you are making a living and paying the mortgage etc then i would say go and buy something with a good established name , however if its for hobby use and will not get the punishment of site work then buy what you can afford , my tools range from very cheap to very expensive and yes i do make a living from woodwork :wink:

I have a cheap macalister router in my workshop that gets used and abused everyday and ive had it for 4 years plus , it has just worked with no problem at all , im sure it will pack up soon but i will be replacing it with the same , on the other hand i have a dewalt circular saw that lasted all of 10 mins before it died (it was second hand mind)

Think about what you need a tool for before spending a fortune on it , if your only going to use it a few times a year then i dont see the point in getting the most expensive one , you could always borrow from someone else :wink:

Someone will be along soon to say that im wrong and you should re-mortgage your house for your tools so the choice really is yours :lol: :lol:

 

[John. B]

Fishamble,
if your joinery friend thinks oak is a softwood and offers advice about woodworkery things, I wouldn't pay too close attention to what he says. :?
As far as hard and softwoods are concerned, there is a little more to it than meets the eye.
Here's a snippet about some woods you may come to use.

Hardwoods are produced by broad leaved trees whose seeds are enclosed in fruit e.g. acorns.

Evergreen hardwoods.
These are trees that keep their leaves all the year round. They generally grow quicker than deciduous trees and grow to a larger size. They are usually softer and easier to work than deciduous trees. There are only two European evergreens and these are holly and the laurel. Most evergreens are found in tropical or sub-tropical countries such as South America, central America, Africa, Burma, India and East and West Indies. Examples of Evergreen Hardwoods are:-
Mahogany, Teak, African Walnut, Iroko, Afrormosia, Ebony and Balsa.

Deciduous Hardwoods
These are the trees that lose their leaves in winter. They generally grow in temperate climates including the British Isles, Europe, Japan, New Zealand, Chile, and central U.S.A. Examples of Deciduous Hardwoods are:-
Oak, Ash, Elm, Beech, Birch, Walnut, Sycamore, Chestnut and Lime.

The terms softwoods and hardwoods are used to describe the leaves, seeds and structure of the trees. It is not used to describe the type of wood produced e.g. Balsa is light and very soft to use. It is used to make light weight models. It is however a hardwood. Yew is a coniferous tree and technically a softwood but is heavy and hard to use like some hardwoods.

John. B

 

[wizer]

You need a good circular saw with a good blade, a home made guide rail and a average quality router. If you aren't making any curves pieces on this or near future project, then ditch the jigsaw idea. Jigsaws aren't for cutting straight lines! Split the money you was going to spend on a jigsaw between circular saw and router and you'll have 2 good power tools that will take you a long way as a beginning woodworker. Oh and until you've got at least the next couple of projects done, don't even think about machinery.

 

[big soft moose]

I suppose techincally you could cut a straight line with a jigsaw and a fence - but why would you bother if you had a circular saw to hand ?

I second what the others have said here buy a decent but not ludicrously expensive router, rechargeable drill/driver, and circular saw - make yourself a sled for the circular saw and you are pretty much set.

Machine tool wise I like the sliding mitre saw because I have a hells own job cross cutting a square and straight line by hand - but thats just me and a lot of others here hate the sight of the things.

The allround most useful machine (as oposed to hand held power tool) I find is the bandsaw - this doesnt have to be big or expensive - mine is a baby two wheel rexon i bought off blister for 70 notes.

Project wise , i'd say your first project should be to build yourself a decent bench - you will find woodwork a lot easier on a propper carpenters bench with vice, dogs etc than trying to work balanced on a work mate, a kitchen chair and a wallpaper paste table (course we dont know anyone who tried to build a bookcase like that only to find it a tad bendy )

 

[ste_5150]

I asked a similar question on here a few months back and got a very similar response. I have to say, the above advice is totally correct. I got a circular saw (2nd hand Bosch from a forum member), a router (Erbauer 2nd hand from ebay - can get new for 80-90 quid from Screwfix - great tool if you work out!) and a couple of hand planes & spokeshaves.

The tools have enabled me to make a real start in woodworking, and covered any task I need to work towards. I generally use the circular saw to cut to approximate size, and the router with a straight-edge and a few home-made jigs to trim to final dimensions.

It'd be faster to have some more tools in some circumstances (table saw and planer/thicknesser particularly), but I can do everything I need with what I have.

Drop me a PM if you want to discuss specifics of the jigs or tools I've ended up with - it may just shorten the learning curve as I've made and corrected a lot of mistakes in the last couple of months! :wink:

 

[Tony Spear]

Machine tool wise I like the sliding mitre saw because I have a hells own job cross cutting a square and straight line by hand - but thats just me and a lot of others here hate the sight of the things.

Course, with a decent plane and a shooting board..... :wink:

 

[OPJ]

The trouble with sliding compound mitre saws is that the majority of them on the market aren't that accurate; especially when cutting to maximum width capacity. The non-sliding affairs tend to be far more accurate, although you can generally only cross cut a maximum of 5" or 6" wide.

I still like to have an 'inaccurate' SCMS in my workshop as they are great for quickly downsizing large, wide boards of hardwoods. Trust me, you wouldn't want to start cross-cutting any length of 10"x3" beech by hand! :wink: And cross-cutting a long length of timber (particularly if it's also wide) on your average sized table saw isn't safe or easy... :?

There are, of course, a few exceptions - the only one I'm confident enough to recommend is the DW712, having seen it in the flesh. It happens to be the most accurate saw DeWalt have produced and can be had for around £300 on eBay (albeit, 'factory reconditioned' with one-year warranty).

 

[big soft moose]

Machine tool wise I like the sliding mitre saw because I have a hells own job cross cutting a square and straight line by hand - but thats just me and a lot of others here hate the sight of the things.

Course, with a decent plane and a shooting board..... :wink:

well there is that... but it doesnt help if your cut has wandered to the inside of the line.

and decent planes arent cheap (but thats a whole nother thread)

 

[mailee]

I would agree with most of the postings on here. Go for a good hand held circular saw and make a guide rail for it, (simple task) You will need a router for cutting the trenches (dados) and also a guide rail for this again home made is fine. A good straight cutting bit for the router and your away. I think you will find most of us on here started with budget tools and then progressed to more quality ones as funds and experience allowed. I would also agree that a good quality drill driver is a must as you will use it a lot. HTH. :wink: Oh and welcome to the forum, your in the right place for good advice.

 

[fishamble]

Wow. Thanks to everyone for the replies.
The jig saw has been put off until a later date. I am going to wait for a few weeks before i decide which tools to buy.
I know everyone here is saying to limit the spend, but i think i wouldnt have a problem spending 100 pounds for a decent makita 190mm circular saw. Hopefully it would last for many years.

I got a circular saw (2nd hand Bosch from a forum member), a router (Erbauer 2nd hand from ebay - can get new for 80-90 quid from Screwfix - great tool if you work out!)

Maybe i am being overly cautious, but i dont want to take the risk buying a second hand power tool, without knowing what it has been through during its lifetime. The same can be said for the less expensive brand names. I dont have a knowledge of power tools but i think i can expect quality from the likes of bosch, makita and dewalt.

I am taking all my prices from axminster because they seem to sell good brands at surprisingly low prices in comparison to other sites, including ebay.

I still dont know which router to go for. Axminster only have two cheaper routers available.(than the bosch for 120 which i linked in my first post) The cheapest is a ryobi for seventy pounds, however i was advised to never waste a penny on a ryobi tool.

Project wise , i'd say your first project should be to build yourself a decent bench -

This is high on my list of priorities.

and decent planes arent cheap (but thats a whole nother thread)

Speaking of planes. What is your opinion of these planes for my needs. It is a pack of two for 30 pounds which includes a No.60 1/2 Low angle adjustable mouth block plane and a No.4 Smoothing Plane.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/sessionI...er-Set-of-2-Planes-with-Carry-Case-725255.htm


Thanks for taking the time to read and reply,
John Paul.