Beginner question - plate turning

[Chris152]

You have the Cardiff branch of Axminster close at hand. Find out when the turning demonstrations are on, good chance to talk not only to the demonstrators, but to fellow woodturners. I think you are allowed to play on some of the display machines?

I missed your post earlier, Blockplane. I went into look at the machines in Axminster yesterday, no demos for a little while but it was useful - I was surprised how long some lathes are (eg the AWVSL1000), way more than I need for a plate! Their Trade ones offer shorter versions but don't have a swivel head til you pay much more.

I also went to Data Tools which is nearby to look at the Records and they had the Coronet on display - like the CL3/ 4, they're shorter which is better for a small workshop.

If I could find a used one with the right specs I'd buy it now, but til then I think I'm just going to look for something cheap with some clearance to learn on.

Thanks

C

 

[Chris152]

Chris, before you go spending hard earned cash at Axminster, check if Vale Woodturners have a Club account with them, I set one up for the Didcot Club and there was 5% off lathes and 10% off accessories. You may get your club subs for the year back with one purchase! Just a thought.

Dave

Good point, Dave - I'll ask next week, and if they don't have the arrangement i'll suggest it! C

 

[Tony_A]

If you want information on dust extraction I would suggest that you have a look at Bill Pentz's site.
I don't have permission to post links so you can google "Bill Pentz cyclone".

Another good resource is the Australian woodworking forum which has a sub forum dedicated to dust extraction. Have a look at the thread by Bob L describing modifications to a 2 hp dust extractor to get adequate air flow. Google "the generic 2 hp dc"

Tony

 

[Chris152]

Thanks Tony - I'll check both out. Just out of interest, do you build dust cyclones in the opposite direction down your way?

I've been looking on the usual sources and can't find a lathe that fits the bill yet. Patience, I know. But saw this in Axminster a couple of days ago:
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ho ... the-505021
Electronic speed control and 12 inch diameter, maybe I could sell it on after 6 months (once I have one, I'll work pretty hard to learn to use it) for a £100/ 150 loss. Would the chuck etc fit the Record CL4 if I upgraded to that in due course? That said, it is a bit odd that the controls on the Record would be hidden behind a big bit of wood in case of emergency stop, as some of you have noted.

The rationale for buying twice would be that with a cheaper lathe to start I'd find out if I was any good at it and if I like it without too much outlay. Plus, weighing just 40 kg I could easily wheel it outside when using and delay buying more dust extraction if I wanted to go that way.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

This is an easy, cheap way of sorting out an emergency stop if you can't reach the switch with the head turned (excuse clutter) -

The power comes in through the switched cable outlet on the far end where it can be switched off if necessary when long hole boring then on through the switch in the middle which can be reached easily no matter where the head. It has to be restarted at the head switch, but restarting it isn't the problem.

 

[nev]

...Would the chuck etc fit the Record CL4 if I upgraded to that in due course? ...

probably not.

The spindle thread size (that the chuck fits to) could be one of half a dozen common sizes. Unfortunately the spindle size may change across the range of a single manufacturer too, so you can't say Axminister's have X and RP have Y thread.

You can however buy chucks with threaded inserts so if you change lathes you simply buy an insert to suit the new one, a lot cheaper than replacing the chuck and jaws etc.

 

[CHJ]

Electronic speed control and 12 inch diameter, maybe I could sell it on after 6 months (once I have one, I'll work pretty hard to learn to use it) .

How many platters over 12" diam. do you envision making?
What are you going to use them for? or Where are you going to sell them to?
Where are you going to source suitable blanks from?
How much do you envision having to pay for the blanks?

Think you need to think hard about the above questions before you make large diameter pieces your rational for selecting a lathe.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks all.

Phil - well, that's one less thing to worry about, looks like a good solution.

Nev - that's good to know - it makes a stronger case for skipping a new one to learn on and then buying another new one possibly with different size attachments.

Chas - I think I can answer those questions ok (I'm sure you don't need to know my answers, but they go from pretty certain (a friend is a tree surgeon, but I'm not remotely pretending to know what to do with the wood!) to probably (I know the art market reasonably, but that one's never anything like certain)).

I really appreciate all your guidance in this.

C

 

[nev]

If its any help at all, and you go the used route...

I've only ever had the one lathe, a Record Power CL2 36x18 (an older blue one). These lathes have two round bars as the bed and you can, if limited for space, cut the bars down and make it as short as you like. The gentleman I inherited from used it in a 6x4 shed along with all the other paraphernalia associated with turning. To make life a little easier he chopped the bars by about a foot so my 36" bed is now only 24" but thats more than I'll ever need. The 18 in the model number is the maximum recommendation for diameter (with the head swivelled through 90º ). The thread on the headstock is 3/4 x 16. So it may be worth keeping an eye out for a used CL2 or 3. It will cover everything you want to do as long as your not strapping tree trunks to it

This is an old listing on eBay for a CL3 36x30 which looks the same as my CL2 but probably has a bigger motor to deal with the 30" max diameter. Both that one and mine have the optional bowl turning attachment (replaces the standard support at the head stock end)

So you could turn everything from tiny to large. Everything shown in my 'not a blog' was turned on my CL2 including..

to this (12 or 14 inches is as large as I've ventured)

all with same tools too.

 

[Tony_A]

Thanks Tony - I'll check both out. Just out of interest, do you build dust cyclones in the opposite direction down your way?

We have to because motors spin the other way down here.

I wasn't in a hurry when I was looking for my lathe and watched the used machine sales for about 6 months before getting a good reasonable priced machine.

Tony

 

[Phil Pascoe]

So you build anticyclones?

 

[Chris152]

That's really useful info, Nev - if I do get one of those I'd definitely look to cut down the bars. I've seen a couple of CL2/3 lathes on ebay but they're so far to travel and I'd want to see it working/ collect, but will keep searching.

One thing I've been wondering - if you're turning a plate or anything fairly wide, do you need to change speed as you move from the rim to the centre on account of the changing speed of the wood at each point? Working with clay (which I haven't done for years) I'd change the speed of the wheel to maintain more-or-less constant rate of removal of clay.

That looks a beautiful bowl!

oh - and searching around the net this morning, I found this:

but can't find one of those nearby on ebay either.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Basically you run them as fast as the blank will allow you to. Variable speed is good if you are working out of balance stuff - people who haven't got it tend to think it's just there for speed and simplicity of gear change, but the best thing with it is you can vary the speed as you work. E.g. something might be out of balance at 400rpm and 600rpm but perfect at 500rpm, and two or three cuts later out of balance again so you can raise it or lower it a little again and repeat. Platters don't tend to be drastically out of balance of course.

 

[Chris152]

Ah, right - I've seen videos describing advancing the speed with unbalanced blocks and then feathering back once they start to vibrate, but didn't realise you run as fast as the blank will allow. Some run from 0-800, others start at 400 - what is the advantage of the variable speed from 0-400? I like the idea as I could paint banding on at very low speed with that, but guess that's not the reason the 0-400 would be helpful to a woodturner.

All of which said, I get to go to the club Tuesday so maybe things'll become more real then - very excited!

Thanks

C

 

[CHJ]

Sanding, texturing, alignment checking, there are many reasons to run slowly once you get into constructions and artistic turning and away from basic bulk material removal.

Spinning defective stock for the more decorative work requires considerable circumspection if you are not to have it 'Bomb' burst in your face, so high speeds can be very dangerous.

Look at this guide and the G forces involved if bits fly off.

 

[Chris152]

Those figures are pretty sobering, Chas - I'm sure starting out with stable wood's important, as is staying out of the line of fire and safety kit. I would like to think I could move onto more fragile wood once I get proficient enough - I saw one beautiful piece on your site and can only think that working with 'defective' wood isn't remotely easy.

I'd been wondering about learning the basics in the most simple and safe fashion and then maybe doing a short course with someone who really knows what they're doing to build skills - could anyone suggest someone in striking distance of Cardiff? I wouldn't mind an hour or so drive each way, each day.

 

[Dave Brookes]

Chris, wait until you have been to the club meeting, if it’s anything like the Didcot club, there will possibly be a few members who will say “come over to my workshop for a few hours” or there may well be someone who does training. There doesn’t appear to be any Registered Professional Turners close to you but you will find a complete list and location map on the AWGB website.
Have a great evening on Tuesday!

Dave

 

[Chris152]

Sounds good, thanks Dave - I'll let you know how I got on.

C

 

[Chris152]

Well, I went along Tuesday and really enjoyed looking around and speaking to people, but didn't get as far as trying a lathe - they were all in use by the time I got there. But just watching and talking, I learned a lot.

My copy of Rowley arrived yesterday and I'm already about half way through it - what a great book. Having watched this link (from the turning forum links)
http://www.finewoodworking.com/2014/02/ ... ng-catches
I started to wonder just how strong my resolve to learn turning is! But Rowley goes through in detail the causes of such catches and understanding better made it all seem slightly less frightening. But even Rowley seems to alternate between saying how dangerous situations easily arise, on one hand, and the need to relax the whole body and mind while turning - not easily done for a beginner, I guess!

Anyway, I've arrived at this point - I think I'm not going to buy a lathe yet, but am going to join the club, get some guidance and practice on a fairly slow burn, and when I'm ready take the plunge I'll buy a lathe. If I can find someone nearby to give me a day or two of one-to-one training, I'll do that too. I didn't realise how remote turning with wood is from turning clay and now look back over this thread and my ambition to throw large plates, and realise how naive I was!

Thanks all,

C

 

[Dave Brookes]

Chris, so glad you found the evening really useful and interesting. I agree, the Keith Rowley book is a mine of infomation and so is Two in one Woodturning by Phil Irons (on Amazon).
A good choice on hanging back before you take the purchasing plunge. There is so much to pick up that is not obvious at first and talking to the club members will reveal a lot of these.

Dave