becoming a cabinet maker

[woodmani]

Hi there,

I have left my I.T job due to the ar#$e licking nature of the workplace, feel of isolation by others and generally I had no passion for the I.T work. My passion is working with wood and building my knowledge on it. Although i admit i have a hill to climb on knowledge and techniques, I have taken a fondness of becoming a cabinet maker and from my recent post about making bedside cabinets i decided to use them as a portfolio for my work to move forward. I have a creative imagination and tackle issues step by step with common sense, learning as i go along.

Can anyone please tell me what is the best way to establish myself and how easy or difficult is it? I have a limited budget so I can't spend money on renting a unit or splashing money on electric machine tools which almost most say i need to do, without it i can't be successful. admittedly I'm reluctant to using electric tools knowing they do the job faster due to past bad experience but I prefer working with my hands with hand tools i have invested in but i'm unsure whether any of you will agree if machines are the way forward or not.

any of your guidance or past experience would be much appreciated so i can guide myself.

Thank you
Mani

 

[Baldhead]

Mani

I'm a hobby woodworker and retired but not from a woodworking background, I would suggest you need to speak to Dodge or Mailee, they are both professionals in the 'industry'. Your reluctance to use power tools may be a big mistake as speed in making projects leads to more work/money.
Others have said on this site that woodworking for a hobby is very different to woodworking for a job, I used to make several items which I could sell, however the repetitive nature of making the same thing day in day out made my woodworking a bit of a chore, also you will no doubt have to work with timbers you dislike (MDF horrible stuff, but cheap and smooth), and make things which you dislike making.

The professionals here will no doubt add to this, if I haven't put you off, I would like to wish you all the luck in the world and I hope you are successful which ever career path you take.

BH

 

[bugbear]

Hi there,

I have left my I.T job due to the ar#$e licking nature of the workplace, feel of isolation by others and generally I had no passion for the I.T work. My passion is working with wood and building my knowledge on it. Although i admit i have a hill to climb on knowledge and techniques, I have taken a fondness of becoming a cabinet maker and from my recent post about making bedside cabinets i decided to use them as a portfolio for my work to move forward. I have a creative imagination and tackle issues step by step with common sense, learning as i go along.

Can anyone please tell me what is the best way to establish myself and how easy or difficult is it? I have a limited budget so I can't spend money on renting a unit or splashing money on electric machine tools which almost most say i need to do, without it i can't be successful. admittedly I'm reluctant to using electric tools knowing they do the job faster due to past bad experience but I prefer working with my hands with hand tools i have invested in but i'm unsure whether any of you will agree if machines are the way forward or not.

any of your guidance or past experience would be much appreciated so i can guide myself.

Thank you
Mani

How long did you take to make the bedside cabinets, how much did the materials cost, how much do you think you could sell them for?

BugBear

 

[woodmani]

Thanks BH,

People have said time is money so need to invest in electrical machinery but I don't have a massive work area as its only my garage where I have 2 long work benches.

Bugbear,

I've only just done the concept and calculating material requirement. Once I do that I can visit maybe Jewson and call Sykes and get a costing. I don't think I can compete with the cheaper chipboard, MDF plastic veneer stuff as this is solid wood. Not being too optimistic but I'm hoping the little things will lead to bigger things but I do acknowledge that bespoke solid wood furniture is a niche market

 

[Chrispy]

As fore becoming a Cabinet maker that's easy, you can call your self anything you like! But if you want to earn a living from it then you have to have something to sell, basically your skills and your time.

It sounds like you have the time but have you the skills? from the way you talk the questions you ask I think not.

You need to learn first, enroll on a furniture making course and get a grounding to work on.

 

[MMUK]

You also need to consider if there's a market. Remember you'll never be able to compete with off the shelf prices. Yes you'll be providing a much higher quality item that will last many years more than an Ikea/Argos chipboard special, but you'll find that 99% of people won't see the cost/lifetime equation just the up front cost. That is the biggest bugbear I have, most people don't seem to appreciate that if you buy cheap you buy at least twice. :roll:

For instance, I costed up a rabbit hutch about three months ago. 6' x 2'6" x 2'. I came in at just shy of £450 delivered. I'd spec'd up for 1/2" marine ply and planed timber with a linolium floor. What does the customer do? She goes out and buys a Pets at Home hutch on offer for £200 and guess what? It's rotting already and the "plywood" (lol) is delaminating. :roll: :roll:

 

[woodmani]

I've come across that once. lady wanted a double door cupboard made, nothing fancy. MDF materials came at £75, i added a modest £60 a day labour, 1 day to build, paint and 1 day to deliver and fit. she started to haggle and i said its not worth my time and distance to make it, better off with something from Ikea.

I guess at the moment i need to gauge what the reality is out there for others

 

[Graham Orm]

Don't want to rain on your parade, but you sound very much out of your depth. Wanting to start making a living with no power tools and being happy to make £60 a day (which is working at a loss when self employed) indicate that you've not done a great deal of research. First of all work out what your life costs to run, mortgage/rent motor expenses, food, utilities...then add how much you want on top....THEN start working out your business costs, insurance, tool depreciation, stock, lighting and heating your workshop. There will be more. Divide the total by how many hours a week you want to work to see how much a day you need. For most self employed people £150 a day is a living wage after all expenses, I'm up north, it's probably more than that in the south.

EDIT: Forgot marketing, how will you let people know you exist? have you costed advertising at all, it ain't cheap.

Once again...sorry :wink:

Good luck.

 

[woodmani]

you said nothing to be sorry about...

 

[Graham Orm]

you said nothing to be sorry about...

Just didn't want to sound like a nay sayer. I fit kitchens and bathrooms for a living and would dearly love to make nice pieces of furniture instead. I have a good sized workshop and plenty of gear but I know for a fact it would be nigh on impossible for me to start making a living from scratch. I've been self employed for over 30 years. It's nice to have a dream but you have to be a realist too if you want to avoid disappointment.

Something that someone else mentioned above is that it's great when you can go and watch telly and have a brew when you've had enough, but when you're under pressure to get a set number of an item out by weekend or you need to finish and sell a piece by a deadline to make a wage it will stop being fun and become a job. That thought has often crossed my mind when I've been tempted to have a go.

Maybe you could get some training and see if you can get a job in the industry if you're passionate enough? Let someone else do the worrying while you do what you enjoy.

 

[Flynnwood]

I don't want to come across as a nay sayer either.

I would very, very strongly suggest you create a cashflow forecast for the next 24 months and also a Profit and Loss forecast. It will give you a bigger perspective against what you face.

Just saying ....

 

[Graham Orm]

I don't want to come across as a nay sayer either.

I would very, very strongly suggest you create a cashflow forecast for the next 24 months and also a Profit and Loss forecast. It will give you a bigger perspective against what you face.

Just saying ....

Agreed.

F'rinstance.................In the last 3 weeks, 3 new tyres for the van £250. Drill burned out replacement cost £140. Suspended work on Monday/Tue as the clutch has gone on the van, another £700. All these things have to be bargained for in your projection.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Just my 2p - there are 1000 billable hours in a year. You will work twice that, but 1000 of them will be billable.
So if you charge £20 per hour you will turn over 20K, £50 per hour you will turn over 50K. So you have have to be worth £20 or £50 per hour, and then all your costs come out of that. What's left is yours.
If you are worth it, you will have a successful business.
If your work is not worth it, no-one will buy and you will not earn anything at all.
Good luck.
S

 

[petermillard]

Totally agree with what Grayorm has written. If it's any help I have a simple 'cost of doing business' spreadsheet that let's you plug in the numbers and figure out a reasonable day-rate for yourself, though I'd hope a former IT professional would be able to do this in their sleep, lol! PM me if you think it'll help and I'll send it over.

I guess at the moment i need to gauge what the reality is out there for others

You need to gauge what the reality is for *you*

Best, Pete

 

[doorframe]

I have left my I.T job

I take it then that you have no job, in which case what do you have to lose? Go for it, and good luck.

I don't know your requirements (money-wise) to keep a roof over your head. If you've said goodbye to your mortgage and children then you can maybe afford to take a chance.

If you're knee deep in debt then you'd best be looking hard for a well paid 9-5.

Either way, good luck. I wish I was in a position to give it a go, but for some reason Lloyds seem quite determined that I repay the money they lent me to buy this house.

 

[nanscombe]

I guess a possibly simplistic but scary, non-business way of looking at it would be to think about the monthly / annual bills that you used to pay when you were working.

That's probably the sort of money you'd have to make after you've paid for materials and business expenses.

For me, I'd have to make an excess of about £11k over the year. :shock:

 

[mailee]

Most of it has been stated above so I won't repeat it. You will not earn a living with hand tools unless you have a very good reputation as a high end cabinet maker and can command high prices. You must advertise to start with or how does anyone know you are out there? Family and friends are great but this is not a wide enough audience. Best places are local Church mag (Pretty cheap) the phone book and a website. The latter two will cost much more dependant on your web skills. Your family will have to be 100% behind you as you will be working some long hours for little or no pay at times. To give you an example I returned from work tonight at 7.30 pm after starting work at 9am, the reason for this is that I have been fitting a set of wardrobes I had built for a customer. This job of fitting I had calculated should have been about a day and a half as the old one had to be removed, this took much longer than expected. add to that that one of the cabinets had to be fabricated on site and it took much longer than I had priced for! luckily these jobs are few and far between but they do happen. I will now spend a couple of hours on the computer pricing and drawing up some plans for another possible job (which I get no pay for) and then hope it is worth the effort and I do get the job. You will also need some extra space for the work that is finished but waiting to be fitted or space for refinishing the cabinets away from the dust.
I would sit back and have a good think about it and work out a business plan, I think you will find hand tool work just isn't for the self employed. Sorry for the negative post but it is a big step to take without a lot of thought to it. HTH.

 

[Graham Orm]

I think he's gone to the pub.

 

[Max Power]

I too have resigned from my well paid secure job that supported my wife and familly ccasion5:

I am planning on doing cosmetic surgery as I hear the pay is quite good.

I have no equipment other than my wifes kitchen knives and absolutely no experience whatsoever

Do you think Ive done the right thing :?

:shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[doctor Bob]

Every one has to start somewhere but to be honest I think you need a bit more experience than a couple of bedside cabinets.

Having said that If I can run a cabinet making business anyone can........