Battery compatibility

[dickm]

Not strictly a general woodworking topic, but as heavyweight cordless equipment gets more common, there once more seem to be almost more different battery types than there are makers! I've been looking at cordless chainsaws, and it looks as if each of the makers has their own "standard". Has anyone done the research to see if any of the different ones are interchangeable? Guessing that most of them come out of the same Chinese factory anyway, but making batteries exclusive to each name is obviously a good ploy for follow up sales.
The only make that seems to have much non-OEM support is Makita.

 

[Fitzroy]

Not done any research but my expectation is that the cells used in the batteries will be generic, but the electronic control, charging and protection circuitry will be manufacturer specific and match battery to tool/motor etc. Manufactures will likely see a competitive advantage from innovation around power, capacity, recharging rate such that they will want to develop and market their own. Additionally they can use it to tie you in to their brand, as batteries are interchangeable. It would take government intervention to force a common standard across them, which I've seen no evidence of.

The iphone stuck with a subpar cable connector for years, and it took EU policy to force/convince them to adopt an industry standard USB-C, and that was just a 'port'.

F.

 

[Doug71]

There are a couple of systems but many of the brands involved are not that well known.

https://www.cordless-alliance-system.com/

https://www.bosch-professional.com/us/en/ampshare/

 

[benhen31]

In most cases the batteries are exactly the same other than the shape of the plastic and the connector style.

Badapter or similar will allow you to use any battery on any brand:
https://badaptor.com/

So in theory, buy the best tool and don't worry about matching it to a brand you have batteries for. Having said that, I like mine to be the same brand if there's not much difference in tool!

 

[nickds1]

Do please avoid the cheap so-called compatible battery packs on eBay/Amazon/Banggood/AliExpress etc. They do not have anything like the same protection circuitry as the original stuff, nor anything like the quoted capacity. There's lots on the web about the dangers of these units.

Caveat emptor!

 

[Dabop]

Dewalts have plenty of aftermarket batteries for sale, although its annoying that they changed from the old XRP '18v' plugin to the XR '20v' slideon- they are actually the exact same voltage lol- pure marketing... and can be used interchangeably with an adapter...

That's one of mine from the '20v' slideon dewalt to the older '18v' plugin (it also makes a handy 'massive' powerbank for charging the phone or tablet- great for 'fishing weekends' lol) with an older aftermarket dewalt battery

There are plenty of adapters to go from one manufacturer to another for most the major brands, so it is quite possible to 'brand hop' for the tools and just use the one brand of battery

 

[Phil Pascoe]

In most cases the batteries are exactly the same other than the shape of the plastic and the connector style.

Badapter or similar will allow you to use any battery on any brand:
https://badaptor.com/

So in theory, buy the best tool and don't worry about matching it to a brand you have batteries for. Having said that, I like mine to be the same brand if there's not much difference in tool!

Some of these things are notorious for screwing up batteries.

 

[benhen31]

Some of these things are notorious for screwing up batteries.

Never had a problem. There's no electronics in it, it's literally a piece of plastic in the correct shape to go from one to the other, with the metal contacts in the right place.

 

[Dabop]

Mine has electronics in it- but it is literally just a USB power supply, the older one I have is no electronics- just a bunch of copper strips from one set of contacts to the other...

If it was going to stuff the battery, it would stuff the original battery too lol

 

[Orraloon]

I have 3 sets of generic batteries and chargers as replacements and not had a problem. Just be sure to use the chargers that come with them because they may have a different charging management system to the branded batteries. When running the tool its just providing power.
The cost of replacement branded batteries is just the big end of town taking us for the suckers they have conditioned us to be.
Regards
John

 

[ColinDeVelen]

Speaking for the company I work for, we have multiple sites worldwide (including the one here) that make our battery packs. Not all of them are produced in every site, that depends more on overall demand in given markets. I can say that A LOT of work goes in to developing our packs, as well as the chargers and the communication with the modules on the tools they go in to.
And there are a lot of knock off versions of our batteries as well. Sometimes the quality of the assembly of those can be truly appalling, so very definitely a case of caveat emptor.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Never had a problem. There's no electronics in it, it's literally a piece of plastic in the correct shape to go from one to the other, with the metal contacts in the right place.

There are numerous reports of people ruining their batteries with them. My daughter's partner's firm for one. I suspect they may well work for some combinations not others.

edit - I suspect the problem is between the batteries and the chargers rather than the between the batteries and the tools.

 

[dickm]

The cost of replacement branded batteries is just the big end of town taking us for the suckers they have conditioned us to be.

Think you've hit this particular nail squarely on the head, Orraloon!
But thanks for all the comments, folks.

 

[nickds1]

Think you've hit this particular nail squarely on the head, Orraloon!
But thanks for all the comments, folks.

It's not as simple as a rip-off. It's non-trivial and costs a lot to do the design, testing and manufacturing of these packs, especially in an unforgiving industrial environment.

As I'm an electronic design engineer, I've always had an interest in taking stuff apart to see how it's made.

I've looked at original manufacturer's battery packs and the cheap knockoffs from the usual suppliers. They are chalk and cheese...

The originals have load balancing, thermal sensing and proper battery management - the thermal management and charge/discharge control aspects are critical for safety and battery lifespan, especially with Li-ion packs. The physical cells are normally branded and you know that they'll meet stringent safety and capacity standards. The pack itself also has to meet safety standards to prevent it being damaged by dropping etc, and, heavens forbid, if there's an issue within the battery pack itself, containing the effects. If Makita/Bosch/DeWald say "5AH", you'll get that or better for the life of the pack.

Typically very little if any of the above is true for the knockoffs. I've been very disappointed but sadly not surprised by the extensive corner cutting/Muntzing used in these packs. They'll also quote highly exaggerated capacities in order to get the gullible to purchase them. It's poor compromise and a false economy in every way. Why spend a lot on good tools, then risk the possible consequences of a battery fire?

I buy some tools on these sites, but I'd never buy battery packs.

(*) I'm a Makita guy...

 

[Phil Pascoe]

(*) I'm a Makita guy...

Sorry to hear that.

 

[Essex Barn Workshop]

In most cases the batteries are exactly the same other than the shape of the plastic and the connector style.

Badapter or similar will allow you to use any battery on any brand:
https://badaptor.com/

Just done a quick look at that site, and I'm on Bosch pro. The only adaptor they offer from Bosch is to Ryobi, and that is £24.99 whereas I could buy a genuine 2AH (yes i know, only 2AH but...) Bosch pro battery from Screwfix for £25.90.
Of those two options, personally I'd buy the battery.

 

[Dabop]

I repack my own batteries (at least the dewalts are screwed together, not glued like some) but I was less than impressed with the new Dewalt 20v series battery that came with my chainsaw- it failed VERY quickly, turns out it has cells running in parallel and has no BMS at all- just the led 'power meter'

Dd a repack using low voltage protected Panasonics, which has now run for nearly three years of some pretty savage use (the original failed within 4 months and wasn't covered under warrantee...)
Not as good as a 'proper' BMS (but they have shrunk the case size down there simply isn't room to fit an aftermarket one in there)- the Panasonics with their low voltage cutout is the next best thing

(Dewalt's best years are behind them these days, they used to be one of the 'go to' brands for tradies, but that time has long passed, now they are at the upper end of the 'home handyman' market, but far from the 'trade tough' tools they used to be...)

 

[Tom K]

There are a couple of systems but many of the brands involved are not that well known.

https://www.cordless-alliance-system.com/

https://www.bosch-professional.com/us/en/ampshare/

So are those systems compatible with each other because they both list Rothenberger?

 

[Orraloon]

Way I see it is if its an expensive tool and still in warranty then I would think hard about the issue but getting extra life out of old tools then its a case of do the math. For instance my 14.5v makita drill has to be about 20 years old. The triton impact driver was not worth the cost of a branded pair of batteries and the strimmer well its only a ryobi.
Regards
John

 

[gmgmgm]

I have a Makita chainsaw (it's great BTW) and a Ryobi pole-chainsaw. The Ryobi runs using a Badapter off my Makita batteries. I really don't want to start another collection of batteries.

The Badapters seem to be cheaper on Amazon than from their own site.