Bandsaw Motors

[paulm]

Having done a lot of deep ripping on my Startrite 351e recently on Paul C's walnut logs, it showed up the limitations of the current bandsaw motor.

Even with a new 1" rip blade from Dragon, at full depth of cut (12") the limiting factor was the motor, which struggled to keep driving the blade through the wet timber. It was do'able but very slow going and you had to back off the timber continually as the motor slowed, allow it to recover speed and then feed again.

I think the motor is 1500w (is that 2hp?) and single phase, and the machine is fine for most "normal" useage, it's just deeper ripping on wet or dry timber, say over 8" or 9" depth where it starts to struggle.

Was wondering whether it might be feasible to fit a more powerful motor (could run a 16 amp supply if necessary), and what type,size and where from ?

Have looked at new machines but interestingly it's hard to find any with a significantly bigger motor anyway (unless I'm misunderstanding the watts/hp thing, and I don't really want to spend on a new one at the moment anyway, and certainly not if it would only suffer from the same limitations anyway.

Perhaps my expectations are a bit unreasonable, we did revert to using the chainsaw on some in the end although the wastage of good timber that resulted makes it less than ideal.

Thoughts/advice welcome !

Cheers, Paul

 

[neilyweely]

Chisel
I am running a startrite bandit 5, which is about 7 inch max cut, and I have exactly the same problem. The blade seems to grab and slow through the cut. I have contacted startrite about this who told me that the machine was underpowered. So I am looking for a new motor myself. The motor on it is, as I understand it, a good motor, british etc...., but not enough for my needs. I will be interested to see what you decice to do.
I need a single phase, 2hp or thereabouts which is running at 1400 odd rpm. The machine is belt driven, so I can slow the motor down as req'd, but you will need to look at whether or not the motor you require is 2 or 4 pole (can't remember which is which).
let me know what you find. I am stuck at machine mart atm. And not impressed with 'em really.

Thanks

Neil

 

[pooka]

It's a bit pricey (and possibly too beefy too!), but I have read very good things about Laguna bandsaws and they sell a 4.5HP motor for $645:

http://www.lagunatools.com/45hpbaldormo ... grade.aspx

That page is short of details but there may be further info elsewhere on the site. I know that their 14" bandsaw (the LT14SE) has a 2HP 220V motor so perhaps the above motor is 220V too. They used to offer delivery of the LT14SE within Europe (it is manufactured in Eastern Europe) so I presume they'll deliver the motor worldwide too - the delivery charge could be significant though, I guess.

 

[paulm]

Interesting, just checked the motor plate and it's actually less than I thought, only 1100w which I think is about 1 1/2hp (but not certain about the hp conversion), rather than the 2hp that I thought.

It's also 2850rpm which I think means a 2 pole motor as the 4 pole I think tend to go to around 1500rpm.

Sounds like if I can find a replacement for mine that doesn't cost the earth Neil, that perhaps the one I currently have would suit your needs :lol:

Does anyone have any idea how much more hp would be needed to make a significant difference to the performance, obviously the bigger the better I guess but don't know if going to only 2hp would be a waste of time and I should look for 3hp or even more to make sure it performs properly at the full depth of cut ?

Cheers, Paul

 

[neilyweely]

Chisel

PM sent matey!!!

Neil

 

[OLD]

746 watts per HP . Is a 1inch blade the best for ripping wet timber i am thinking it could cause extra friction with the wet saw dust and the need to keep a very straight line

 

[paulm]

746 watts per HP . Is a 1inch blade the best for ripping wet timber i am thinking it could cause extra friction with the wet saw dust and the need to keep a very straight line

I believe it is Old, as the increased tooth spacing and oversized teeth allow for bigger gullets to carry away the sawdust more quickly. and there is a wider kerf on that particular type of blade to reduce blade binding.

I also used some pfte lubricating spray from time to time (as this was rough cutting and the timber surfaces are not going to be finished/polished straight off the saw), and that helped noticably ease the blade through the wood also.

Have used 1" 2tpi and 3/4" 3 tpi as well though and same problem only more so, the big ripper blade seems as efficient as I can get......

Cheers, Paul

 

[Green]

Dont know if it helps but my 14" bandsaw has a 2 horse motor and it struggles on full depth (220mm) cut, so I think you may need to go bigger :?:

I have swapped motors in a couple of machines and Machine Mart have always been helpful.

 

[ivan]

Try bearingboys.co.uk for motors, the prices look quite reasonable for 'real' motors. Machine Mart single phase motors are of a type with little starting torque and will quite probably stall if starting a bandsaw fitted with a stiff blade.

 

[Green]

Good point! I have only used the MM motors on old Wadkin and Delta saws and planers, might not have enough oomph for starting a bandsaw.

 

[jhwbigley]

iv got a nice 2.2kw brook motor hiden away, but i'm saving that for a rainy day. :wink:

you could look in the yellow pages for electric motor referb companys, they might have something a bit more meaty.

jhb

 

[JonnyD]

Hi Chisel I have the same startrite bandsaw as you and i find it okay up to 6 inch depth of cut over that and it struggles a bit. Keep us informed if you find a solution as i am considering changing the motor on mine.

jon

 

[paulm]

Looks like the choice is between something from ebay like this for £100 or so

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Electric-Motor-Si ... m153.l1262

or this, probably Chinese ?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Electric-Motor-Si ... m153.l1262

Or a "proper" one like this for £300 or so :shock:

http://www.bearingboys.co.uk/3HP_Flange ... tor-8229-p

So quite a price discrepancy, and I'm guessing you get what you pay for but wonder if anybody more knowledgeable has any thoughts?

Also a bit worried by getting a replacement with flange mounting that will just bolt on without any messing around, seem to be different sizes and configurations so not too clear at the moment :-k

Cheers, Paul

 

[neilyweely]

chisel
a friend of mine, who I had hoped would have a replacement for you has not, but is going to call his supplier and try to find a decent 2nd hand number for your perusal. If this is a help let me know, he was quite insistent he was gonna ask, anyway, so.....

I know some folk rather have new, me? I always like my goods 'broken in'
so 2nd hand would be great for me. You may require a new one. What I would say is that thosw brook crompton motors go on forever, so maybe a 2nd hand one would work ok?

Let me know

Neil

 

[paulm]

Hi Neil,

Yes, very interested thanks, secondhand is not an issue necessarily.

Would be a bit worried about letting the existing motor go before I was confident in the new one though, in case I end up with out a working machine at all :? :lol:

First things first though I guess. Sure would like to be able to rip the large timbers a bit easier 8)

All the best,

Cheers, Paul

 

[neilyweely]

chisel

wouldn't want you to let the existing motor go until you had installed and tested the new motor for a while anyway. I have had tools in the past that I thought were the mutts to start with, only to find I really didn't like them.

I personally believe (thru what I have been told by RR man) that the BC motors are better than the new 'equals'. He has also told me that whatever I think I need, go bigger. ie I think I need 1hp, go for 2.

With this in mind I will carry on looking round for one myself, but also think about your requirements. I am not in a desperate hurry, so.....

Thanks either way.

Neil

 

[paulm]

Have been doing some investigations on motor upgrades and have identified an ebay supplier of replacement EU manufactured motors with high starting torque and reasonable prices.

Only problem is that the next size motor up has a larger shaft diameter so need to get a new pulley to fit also, but should all come in around or under the £100 mark depending on which motor size I go for.

The existing motor is 1100 watts, and the next size up is 1500 watts, but I'm not sure if that limited extra power will make enough of a difference in deep rip sawing to make it worthwhile ?

The next size up from that is 2200 watts which is what I had envisaged going for, but the supplier has said that size won't work with a normal 13 amp plug as the running current is 13.2 amps. I thought the amps was watts divided by volts which I make to be around 9 amps, so not sure if the running current is different ?

I could run a 16 amp supply and socket if needed if the 2200w motor was the way to go, just extra hassle and expense, so guess I could always just try it and see !

Any thoughts appreciated !

Cheers, Paul

 

[neilyweely]

Chisel
As I understand it, having been briefed at the wekend by my 'engineer',
is 750watts is one hp. So 1500 will be 2hp. I cannot find what I want for you yet, I think a 3hp, which would be a good quality english motor (none of your japanese muck, as my old Dad would say!).

If this is enough then let me know. I have to say, in this case it seems that whatever you think you may need double it and you'll be close.

Be lucky

Neil

 

[paulm]

Have managed to shed some more light on the motor power/amp front.

The V x A = W formula doesn't work as motors are a long way from 100% efficient.

Full load running current 1.1kw = 7.0a
1.5kw = 9.09a
2.2kw = 13.2a

Starting current is approximately 5 x the FLRC but only for a fraction of a second, so the fuses accommodate it without a problem, but the 2.2kw motor wouldn't run on a 13 amp plug.

I assume if I replaced one of the existing 13amp sockets on the ring with a 16amp socket, and changed the motor lead to have a 16 amp plug, that that would get around the problem ? The circuit has 15 or 16 amp breaker on it I think.

Or should I run a seperate supply from the garage consumer unit solely for the 16 amp socket ? :-k

Cheers, Paul

 

[paulm]

Conclusion to the bandsaw motor upgrade saga on this thread here

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... 056#343056

Very happy with the result \/

Cheers, Paul