Bad technique or bad steel?

[bodgermatic]

Oh I'm all for a bit of cap iron fettling, especially if it saves me some money. There are other planes in the <cough> collection that would no doubt benefit from a new iron purchased with the savings. Oh hang on, that's going to cost me more isn't it. Thanks Alf, by saving me money you've ended up costing me money... Actually, thinking about it, the 5 1/2 that I have an outstanding tuit on came with an iron which had about 1mm left before the slot. Sounds like a plan I'll be interested to see if changing the blade will make a big difference to the feel - I know I'm probably imagining it, but the #6 feels like it has more heft than the #7, which I suspect might also be contributing to my 'pick up the fore first' tendencies.

 

[Alf]

Al
Prices have taken a fair jump on most handtools over the last year due to the Dollar and other increases, as you have probably noticed.
Rob does still pop his head in from time to time - usually to dangle one of his usual teases :lol:

Now there's a surprise... :lol: Yeah, I'm not sure it's the jump in prices that's causing me to goggle so much as being out of practice at remembering tool prices at all. To my horror I found the phrase "£188 for a saw?" drop from my lips the other day. That's rather serious. :shock:

Thanks Alf, by saving me money you've ended up costing me money... :wink:

Funny how often that happens... :wink:

 

[dunbarhamlin]

True, but some bootiful toothy confections have been landing on these shores in your absence, from LV to Rob Cosman with new fangled bits, Ed in Oakville with toasted birdseye yumminess and Mike's early Kenyon DT touching down shortly.

 

[Modernist]

Hi,

How about 2 2.3/8 blades for £10.41? you need to cut them out and harden them :wink: http://www.cromwell.co.uk/CTL4133407H
I have made some my self and they are very good.


Pete

I've also used the same stuff to make some large smooth jigsaw blades for a 1 HP Fein heat treated to straw and quenched in oil. Worked a treat but I might struggle with the heat reatment for a plane. Does it stay flat?

 

[Racers]

Hi, Modernist

I had no problems I made two 2" two 2 3/8" a 2" scraper plane blade in one batch with no problems, all heated on the barbeque with a haridryer up to red heat and quenched in a saucepan full of oil, then tempered on the oven, here is a shot of my setup this time making a 1 1/4 paring chisel.

Pete

 

[Modernist]

I'm interested, what was your tempering procedure?

 

[Racers]

Hi,

I just stick them in the oven, run it up to temp (can't remember how hot at the moment) hold it for half an hour and then turn it off and leave then untill the morning.


Pete

 

[lurker]

Hi,

I just stick them in the oven, run it up to temp (can't remember how hot at the moment) hold it for half an hour and then turn it off and leave then untill the morning.
Pete

200 deg C IIRC

Modernist & Bodger (plus anyone else)

Blade making has been on my list a while - I have the steel & stuff to make a Philly Furnace

When I have a bit more time ( Nov Dec??) maybe we can have a blade tempering event at my place one Saturday afternoon. Pete can come & supervise.

 

[Racers]

Hi, Lurker

Sounds like a good idea.


All you need is a barbque a hair dryer and a saucepan of old oil, don't need any thing fancy, the tempering can be done at home.

Pete

 

[bodgermatic]

When I have a bit more time ( Nov Dec??) maybe we can have a blade tempering event at my place one Saturday afternoon. Pete can come & supervise.

Got to be good for a giggle

 

[lurker]

Got to be good for a giggle

[-X You can come, but only if you promise to take this seriously :lol:


Can we pencil in Saturday 14th November ??

That gives me time to make up some blades & build the furnace (& test)

 

[Racers]

Hi,

14th sounds good to me.

Pete

 

[bodgermatic]

[-X You can come, but only if you promise to take this seriously :lol:

It's my general policy not to take anything seriously - I'll try and make an exception.
Penned in the calendar - that's how confident I am that I'll be allowed out to play.

 

[lurker]

Jolly good \/ - a mini bash in the making then

Bring your Planes & we can discuss sharpening too


Bodge, I have some steel stock if you want to come over before then to work some into blade shapes.

Anyone else is welcome, but space may be limited if weather is bad

 

[woodbloke]

Hi,

I just stick them in the oven, run it up to temp (can't remember how hot at the moment) hold it for half an hour and then turn it off and leave then untill the morning.


Pete

To temper a blade it should be heated to the correct temp (straw colour for a chisel or plane blade at the edge I think) and then quenched again in oil or water. Leaving it to cool down slowly is annealing, traditionally done in by covering it with sand so that the heat dispersed slowly (which is what's happening in the oven) Annealing the metal returns it to the same state as it was prior to hardening...in other words soft.
I think I'm right here, but am no expert on this sort of thing - Rob

 

[Philly]

Rob
Annealing is done from Cherry Red, not Straw Yellow (gotta love the colours!) It is normal to leave the blades to come back to room temperature naturally when tempering.
Hope this helps
Philly (who is just popping some irons in the oven)

 

[woodbloke]

Rob
Annealing is done from Cherry Red, not Straw Yellow (gotta love the colours!) It is normal to leave the blades to come back to room temperature naturally when tempering.
Hope this helps
Philly (who is just popping some irons in the oven)

Thanks Philly, please explain this then from the first site I Googled...

"Other products, e.g., swords and saws, require tempering for toughness. In the handicraft process of tempering, the condition of the steel during heating is judged by its color, caused by an oxide film. A desired hardness can be achieved by plunging the steel into a bath when it has cooled to the right shade of yellow or brown or blue. To secure a bath of the right temperature, various liquids are used, e.g., pure water, saltwater, oil, and molten metal. The process of softening steel that is harder than desired is called annealing"

Tempering an edge is achieved by re-quenching at the appropriate temperature (indicated by the colour at the edge) after hardening (where the steel is heated to cherry red and quenched in oil or whatever) - Rob

 

[Modernist]

When I have a bit more time ( Nov Dec??) maybe we can have a blade tempering event at my place one Saturday afternoon. Pete can come & supervise.

Leicester it is then

 

[Aled Dafis]

Philly (who is just popping some irons in the oven)

That's also how I do it. The ideal temp. for tempering is 200 - 210 degrees C, but I find that my oven does the job best when set to 230 degrees - basically you're looking for a hint of light brown colouring. I just leave them in the oven for around 15 - 20 minutes and then turn the oven off and let them cool naturally. The length of time an iron is tempered for is not critical so long as the metal is heated all the way through.

For hardening, the iron should be held at it's hardening temperature (when it stops being attracted to a magnet) for quite a long time. Ideally the iron should be held at this temp for "an hour per inch in thickness" which equates to about 15minutes for a 6mm thich iron.

Cheers

Aled

 

[Modernist]

This was my first attempt on the jig saw blade. It worked!

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the idea was to keepo the hard edge to the front and tougher metal behind.