Axminster bench grinder??

[George_N]

I use a cheap high speed grinder and it works just fine. What ever tool-rest you use, keep your fingers on the blade just behind the edge you are working and when you start to feel the heat stop grinding and cool the blade. Your fingers will burn long before the blade overheats. Grinding isn't really faster on a high speed machine because of the stops to let things cool down but then my grinder cost less than £10 (the big Tormek is about £290).

 

[woden]

As to the grinder - it's a slow speed but a 8" wheel - I've heard that the heat build up is the same as the faster 6" grinders due to the speed at the tool being similar...

So if I want slower speed I should be looking for a slow speed grinder with 6" wheels as the speed won't be as great at the edge. Axminster also sell this Creusen version which is slow speed and has the 6" wheels but is ridiculously expensive IMO. I wonder would there be anything to stop me putting a 6" wheel on Axminster's 8" slow speed grinder, after all I'd want to change to a coarser wheel anyway.

Is there any evidence to support the argument that a 6" wheel gives too deep a grind - the edge being weakened as a result? That's a possible drawback but it has to weighed against the benefits of slower running at the rim and I suppose also the hollow lasting longer when honing as it's deeper than what you'd get from an 8" wheel.

Maybe that could be the solution - stick a 6" wheel on the slow running 8" grinder.

... Grinding isn't really faster on a high speed machine because of the stops to let things cool down...

That's something I've been wondering about. I dunno but from what I've read on another forum a lot of people say that when you've the technique off pat a fast dry grinder is quicker than a slow wet one like a Tormek when it comes to heavy grinding and shaping. However, there's another method I'm seriously looking at as well which involves rigging up a bench standing belt sander for heavy grinding/shaping. This apparently gives you the speed of a fast grinder but without the heat build up.

If you can stretch the budget a little this one might be a better alternative for grinding, no risk then of overheating plane blades etc.

I'd given one like that some thought but was put off on hearing that the gearing that gives you a slow speed wheel at right angles can be dodgy and tends to wear out. I think that was a criticism of Triton's version so I wonder would Axminster's be similarly flawed? :?

 

[woden]

Just popped back into this thread to ask if anyone knows of other brands aside from Axminster and Creusen that do slow speed dry grinders? Is there an el cheapo version?

I got my tool rest idea from here: ...

Just had a good look around that guy's website - he's one talented bloke, some people have all the skills. Looking at his tool rest I thought at first that he must have had to maintain the grinding angle freehand. However, I now realise the angle is fixed due to the presence of the wooden block butting against the bar. Fairly similar to the way a Tormek works. It's a configuration I might try...

 

[Chris Knight]

Before you spend money on an expensive slow speed grinder, have a look here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... 1511#41511

 

[ByronBlack]

I've been recently using a bog-standard 150mm grinder from B&Q with excellent results, like Alf, I just use a pot of water when I feel it getting a bit warm - very easy to use, and at only £7 it does a great job. Not sure I could justify the more expensive grinders as essentially they are pretty basic tools, although I can see the benefit of a good tool-rest

 

[Alf]

Not sure I could justify the more expensive grinders as essentially they are pretty basic tools

They last a bit longer and can manage longer working times. I'm practically killing my old Power Devil by using it with a buffing wheel.

Cheers, Alf

 

[ByronBlack]

Not sure I could justify the more expensive grinders as essentially they are pretty basic tools

They last a bit longer and can manage longer working times. I'm practically killing my old Power Devil by using it with a buffing wheel.

Cheers, Alf

There are two issues there though alf, the first being what I call the PD Factor (Power Devil) I make no apologies for wanting to see a worldwide ban on these tools -- too many bad memories!

Also, your using for a purpose that I assume it's not designed for, for instance, I've only used small items on my el-cheapo grinder to great effect because thats what it's designed for, but I wouldn't spend a bunch of money on a Tormek for example to do plane blades and chisel as I feel it's too much of a tool for the job.

It'd be like using a 3HP router to make a 5mm groove.. maybe i'm heading down a rather spikey line of conversation here..

*shyly backs away back into the darkness*

 

[Alf]

Ooo, yes, sorry, I wasn't decrying the cheap grinder - just suggesting the difference. I've never spent more than £40 on a standard bench grinder and you know I grind on a five quid hand cranked version with a coarse grey wheel.

Cheers, Alf

 

[ivan]

I do a bit of work with mild steel (cut, weld, fabricate) and so was tempted by one of the 8" HD axminster brand (normal speed) grinders. They come with a particularly robust rest 10mm or more thick. You'd maybe be surprised how much easier a rigid rest makes offhand grinding. This machine has been very good and sometimes used for hours at a stretch. Axminster is a family business and generally good to deal with.

The supplied grey wheels (36 and 60 grit I think) are rather hard in bond and inclined to glaze over quickly. GP wheels are more suited to shaping softer mild steel. Axminster's white wheels are more suited to tool steel.

6" would be cheaper but if used to grind a woodworking tool's bevel, to be finished on a flat stone, the small diameter will play havoc with your angles.

I'm not at all convinced by the' high speed grinding causes microfractures' argument, especially if you use a white wheel and stop with a very blunt edge to finish off on a flat stone by hand. Machine tools for steel are ground at high speed and resist heavy loading, so should also be OK for HSS lathe tools.

Wet grinding is safe, if a bit slower and more expensive. Lucky
americans can easily get an inexpensive gubbins that lightly sprays the ginding face of a bench grinder with water mist as you grind. Enough to cool, not enough to make a mess.

 

[woden]

...you know I grind on a five quid hand cranked version with a coarse grey wheel.

Don't take this the wrong way but do you seriously grind using a hand cranked grinder or were you just joking. The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if you think a powered grinder isn't as quick due to having to let the tool cool frequently from heat build up. Maybe I've completely got the wrong end of the stick there. :?

6" would be cheaper but if used to grind a woodworking tool's bevel, to be finished on a flat stone, the small diameter will play havoc with your angles.

Surely it must be possible to guage grinding angles fairly accurately when so many people use 6" grinders. Isn't the bevel angle simply formed between an imaginary line connecting the bevel's heel and edge, and the back of the blade? So it doesn't matter how deep a hollow is left from the grindstone, be it a 10", 8" or 6" wheel.


I'm seriously thinking of picking up the Axminster slow speed grinder but rigging it up with a coarse 6" wheel to minimise heat build up - maybe even one of Norton's 3X versions. But I'd really love some advice on whether you can run a 6" wheel on an 8" grinder. I can't see why not as to my eye the only thing that seems to differ from a 6" grinder to an 8" is the size of the guards covering the stones. If you remove the guard couldn't you use a 6" stone? Do the stones on each side have to be the same size to keep the thing in balance?

Finally, am I worrying needlessly over the differences between 6" and 8" grinders? Does the extra speed at the edge of an 8" wheel really make a slow speed grinder no 'slower' in reality than a high speed 6" version?

 

[DaveL]

...you know I grind on a five quid hand cranked version with a coarse grey wheel.

Don't take this the wrong way but do you seriously grind using a hand cranked grinder or were you just joking. The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if you think a powered grinder isn't as quick due to having to let the tool cool frequently from heat build up. Maybe I've completely got the wrong end of the stick there. :?

Alf is definitely a user of a hand cranked grinder, take a look here.

 

[Alf]

...you know I grind on a five quid hand cranked version with a coarse grey wheel.

Don't take this the wrong way but do you seriously grind using a hand cranked grinder or were you just joking.

I seriously do.

The reason I ask is because I'm wondering if you think a powered grinder isn't as quick due to having to let the tool cool frequently from heat build up. Maybe I've completely got the wrong end of the stick there. :?

I may be seizing the wrong end of the stick here too, but I don't think powered grinders are slow. I think wet stone grinders are slow, and probably slow speed grinders...? I like hand cranked 'cos I have complete control over the speed and stopping and starting without having to look for a button or turn a dial. I can also use it in a power cut and it fits into my image of insane neanderthal...

Finally, am I worrying needlessly <snip>

Yes. :wink: You're in serious danger of over-thinking this and never getting anything done. I know the danger of which I speak. If necessary just buy a cheap 6" grinder and some even cheaper chinwanese chisels and have a go.

6" would be cheaper but if used to grind a woodworking tool's bevel, to be finished on a flat stone, the small diameter will play havoc with your angles.

Gads, don't tell any of my tools that will you? Their angles are all just fine at the moment but if they heard that they might stop working... 8-[

Cheers, Alf

 

[ByronBlack]

I'm with Alf 100% on this. 6" grinding wheels are fine, ive recently done 4 plane blades and a set of chisels on it and have not noticed any havoc caused to my angles.

 

[Jake]

I may be seizing the wrong end of the stick here too, but I don't think powered grinders are slow. I think wet stone grinders are slow, and probably slow speed grinders...? I like hand cranked 'cos I have complete control over the speed and stopping and starting without having to look for a button or turn a dial.

Never having used one, what sort of speed do you reckon the hand-cranked ones get up to then? I assume they are pretty highly geared?

 

[Alf]

Had to carry out a highly scientific experiment for this one. The ratio's 10:1 (or shoud that be 1:10? You can tell I'm not an engineer, can't you...) and 30 seconds of "normal" crankng resulted in 55 turns, so I make that 1100 rpm, give or take as many as you like here or there depending on how tired I am. So that would seem to make it an extra slow-running grinder and me glad I put the doubt in about whether slow speed grinders were too slow... 8-[

Cheers, Alf

 

[Jake]

Still much faster than my imagination would have had it!

 

[woden]

Thanks for clarifying, Alf. I just picked you up wrong and had thought you'd said you used an electric grinder earlier.

..so I make that 1100 rpm...

As fast as that, I never would have thought. With that sort of speed you must still get considerable heat build up - do you still have to be careful not to burn an edge. On the other hand, if you can work farely safely at that speed then the Axminster slow grinder doesn't look too bad as it's not much faster.

With the gearing that your hand cranked grinder has and the rpm it can achieve it seems that the 'leap' to electric powered grinders wasn't that great after all - well the leap to slow grinders maybe. I'd thought a hand cranked version would've had a similar rpm to a Tormek but 1100 is way faster. Very impressive for no 'lectron involvement.


So, having read a bit more I think I will go for Axminster's slow grinder - I just wonna know if you can stick a 6" wheel on it (it's designed for 8") without everything going Pete Tong. I think I'll give them a call. The 6" wheel should keep the rim velocity down and they're also cheaper if I want to buy a snazzy ceramic grindstone.

 

[woden]

Replying to myself, tsk, tsk... bad forum etiquette, oh well I think I'll live on the edge just this once.

Anyway, I phoned Axminster today and - shock, horror - was told that the slow running grinder had been discontinued. Aaagh. Then after being transferred to someone else I was assured they'd brought out a replacement. They gave me the code to check it out on the website but all I could get was the current - and now discontinued - model. So phoned back and was told by someone else that I'd been misinformed and that the model they'd told me was being replaced was actually the new replacement! Confused... not half.

So with all that sorted out, er... I think, I got down to brass tacks and asked if they might do a deal on changing the wheels it came with. I wanted a coarser white wheel and a hard felt one instead of those it came with. No could do... apparently, it's all computerised, involving 'conveyer belts' and things so they couldn't possibly open the box on its way from the warehouse. Someone had tried it before but got eaten by a giant robot... Well, it's actually because it'd confuse the computer I was told. Hmm... not sure if I was being fobbed off because they couldn't be bothered, or maybe they were being genuine. Still, I wonder would you have more luck if you walked into their store and dealt face to face?

So I'd have to buy the wheels I want as extras. The next thing I asked was whether you could run 6" wheels on it. This would be fine but the guard would need to be removed. Great, but then the advice got a bit more dodgy. I enquired whether there was much difference in the peripheral speed of 6" and 8" wheels only to be informed firstly that the 6" would travel faster... that's not correct, and then having corrected him he told me that the rpm would drop to about 1250 using the smaller wheel. Eh? Surely the rpm remains constant no matter what the diameter of the wheel - it's a different thing, the peripheral speed, that changes as the circumference decreases or increases. So I don't know where he got that figure from. For what it's worth he reckoned there wasn't much in it - third time lucky I wondered? :?

So now that I know the Axminster grinder can run 6" wheels I might just go down that route. Buy the grinder and then get one of those fancy ceramic wheels - I'll save money buying a 6" one as opposed to an 8".


Now for the tool rest...

 

[ByronBlack]

Woden

I've just orderd axminsters grinder-rest with the holder for blades/chsiels to ensure parallel movement across the wheel, it was £26 - a lot cheaper than the equivelent trend one they do. I'll let you know how I get on with it when it arrives in a couple of days. I did try making my own but it was poo so for a relatively small amount, I thought i'd try the axminster one.

 

[woden]

Byron, I got an offers cataloque in the post from Axminster a few weeks ago and they were selling their adjustable grinding rest at £14.98 with the mitre fence at £4.29. Unfortunately, I've just seen that the offer came to an end on Feb. 28th. Aaargh, I hate missing a bargain.

I wonder how the Axminster rest compares to the Veritas version as that's the other one I've been considering. I think the Veritas one is a few pounds dearer at about £30.