Atkins and Cripps - Burnicle rule - anyone heard of it?

[gidon]

Everytime I go and get some wood from Atkins and Cripps in Plymouth I have some query on the price they've charged me - always a little more than I'm quoted by their head office! Today was no different - but I decided to query it with them since it was clear (amount of wood this time not charge / cu m) they'd overcharged me.

When I phoned to query the price, I was first told to bring the boards back - which was not helpful. When I pushed I got to speak with one of the forklift drivers. I told him it was apparent that I'd be charged for 8" wide boards when I'd got 6" boards. He told me there was no way for them to check since they used the Burnicle Rule! Now I'm pretty sure this exists - I've found just one reference on a quick search - but anyone have details on it?

He also told me to bring the boards back - which I said was impractical. I argued that whatever they used to measure the board - they must be able to tell the width - given they know the length and thickness - which eventually got me the extra I was charged refunded. Although I like their choice of timber, [quoted] prices and in general the service from the chaps who help with the wood - the lady who takes the payment is always very cagey about anything price related - so I am becoming more cautious I have to say.

So any knowledgeable wood yard folks?

Cheers

Gidon

(PS sorry for the semi-rant - wasn't actually the purpose of the post!)

 

[Jake]

Intrigued, I googled a bit too. Very sparse mentions of a bernicle being a measurement that is 1/3 of a metre used in the timber industry. So it would be a bernicle rule(r), not the bernicle rule. They are apparently divided into 11ths, each roughly equivalent to an inch. It sounds more and more april fools like as I type. But there you go. I think that your man was bulling you, when it comes to a 2 inch difference.

 

[gidon]

Jake
Yep - unusual in this day and age not to find what you're after on Google. Only mention I found was that it was 2/3m (!) and offered a convenient method to convert to cu m - but didn't find out how ...
Does sound like a joke I agree! If I didn't find that one reference I might have said it was! Unless it's an in-joke with timber merchants?
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Alf]

If you ask them if a certain timber is difficult to drill and they suggest you go to B&Q for a bag of holes I'd start to get really suspicious... :roll:

Cheers, Alf

 

[Jake]

Atkins and Crips and bernicles appear to be closely linked

http://www.network54.com/Forum/101350/t ... simplicity

 

[Kane]

Isn't it law now that all sales have to be made in metric measures?

Just sounds like a scam to me - if he can't tell 6 inches from 8 inches!

Kane

 

[gardenshed]

British timber yards is the 'Two Burnicle Rule', which is, er, precisely 66.66recurring centimetres long, made of steel of course.

It's calibrated on one side into six even divisions, i.e. each about 4", or a handbreadth, whilst on the other side it is divided into 20 units - not far off an inch each (about an inch and a quarter).

There is then a simple formula for converting 'square burnicles', multiplied by the thickness of the wood in millimetres, into cubic metres (in which much wood is sold these days).

No wonder you were overcharged, even a mathematician would have fun with that formulae

 

[gidon]

Thing is if they were having a joke - that's pretty cheeky since I had genuinely been overcharged and was phoning to complain - albeit very politely .
Cheers
Gidon

 

[mr]

Sounds like the proverbial can of stripey paint or tub of elbow grease to me.

 

[Chris Knight]

I recall visiting a yard shortly after we went metric in this country and being quoted in bastardized units similar to these. I don't recall the name bernicle but it was the same sort of principle.

"Monstrous Carbuncle" is probably a more descriptive name for the thing.

 

[Wanlock Dod]

There is then a simple formula for converting 'square burnicles', multiplied by the thickness of the wood in millimetres, into cubic metres (in which much wood is sold these days).

I have a feeling that there is a simple formula for converting linear metres and square metres into cubic metres.

1m (length) x 1m (width) x 1m (height) = 1 cubic metre

Why bother with burnicles, barnacles or carbuncles at all?

Reading the link that Jake posted reminded me of the spaceship error when imperial units were not converted to metric ones and all was lost.

 

[Steve Maskery]

Methinks someone is removing the michael here. If you are paying for x cubic metres and only getting x-y cubic metres, then there is no excuse, you are being overcharged. I have never heard of this unit, I don''t think it exists, and if it being used as a way of upping turnover by 33%, and therefore probably doubling profits, I wuuld think that Trading Standards would be interested.

This is just bovine colonic waste, surely?

S

 

[Colin C]

This is just bovine colonic waste, surely?

S

Me thinks the smell is strong in this one Luke :^o

 

[gidon]

Thanks chaps and lady - you've all raised to good points.
WD - well you're right of course - but not easy to do in you head by any means: 8' length of 1" x 8" => 0.9754 x 0.0254 x 0.2032m! That's why I thought perhaps there was some method they used to tally up the quantity. He didn't get a calculator out. And the accounts lady reckons she just gets that "tally" and converts to a price.
Whatever it is - I was being overcharged and had no apology and was treated pretty rudely to be honest to black mark against A&C I'm afraid. Still have little choice around here - so will no doubt be back!
Cheers
Gidon

 

[Kane]

Would you stand for that method being used in your local Tescos? Report it to the relevant authorities - certainly won't be buying from them myself.

Kane

 

[Sgian Dubh]

Gidon, I've only ever come across the measure described. It seems to me a pretty contorted method to replace two well known units, i.e., ft³ and M³, and I suppose it should be noted that our American friends use the board foot (bd. ft.) which is 1/12 of a cubic foot. I've never heard of anyone actually use this burnicle (bernicle?) thing before.

As far as I'm aware all the timber merchants in the UK I've ever dealt with use both cubic metres and/or cubic feet. The conversion of one to the other is easy enough.

1M³ = 35.31ft³
1ft³ = 0.028M³

Both conversion factors are right to within a hair or two, and a piece of pi** to work out for anyone with a calculator and half a brain. Slainte.

 

[mahking51]

SD
And there's me trying to work out what you meant by a piece of 'pi', thinking 3.142 etc....
DOH!
Martin

 

[Waka]

Gidon

Is this usual for A & C, I have never used them before but was thinking of a visit to have a look at there "Inpacks".
Do you have any experience with these, if so are they considered value for money?

 

[gidon]

Kane - I'm just happy that I can get hardwood at decent prices without travelling too far. I'm willing to put up with some hassle but of course would rather not! I've generally found their service to be ok to be honest - it does depend a little on who you get serving you unfortunately. But I have been happy with the quality of their wood which is important.

Sgian - thanks - I'm still unsure whether they were having me on to be honest. I'll maybe find out next time I go if I get a friendly character serving me.

Waka - sorry never used their "inpacks". But as I've said elsewhere their prices are pretty good for the South West on rough sawn hardwoods (any quantity) - and quality consistant.

Cheers

Gidon

 

[Nick W]

I enquired about their Inpaks once. IIRC they equate to 1.5 cubic metres. :shock: How much timber do you get through?