Are there really people this uneducated?

[RobinBHM]

I suppose log books are condemned to the back of the cupboard, with road maps slung on top of them

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Yes. My daughter got "A"s at GCSE physics, maths and chemistry without understanding how a logarithmic scale worked - and didn't believe me when I told her I had learned it in junior school.

Nobody uses logs anymore (unless they have to) so they aren't taught. Calculators are far more efficient and precise. But they'd soon get the logs idea if calculators and computers all packed up.

Similarly nobody uses a sextant or sight reduction tables any more for navigation, unless they have to.

Alright...what have you done with the "Jacob" we know?? Come on...where is he?? It cant be you Jacob....you're positing that something modern is somehow useful and has made something older somehow redundant....what have you done with him??

 

[Phil Pascoe]

No one uses logs? Fine - but if they are not taught them, how can anyone be expected to understand how the decibel, Richter, PH etc. scales work? We still need background knowledge of things, even if we don't directly use them.

My thoughts exactly, R.O.B.

 

[Stanleymonkey]

Quite interesting to read the comments.

The 'Asian' style methods focus their efforts on arithmetic, arithmetic word problems, more arithmetic, fractions and algebra.

When a leading proponent of this method was questioned about those who struggle with the pure aspects of maths - he replied that's why we have vocational jobs and trades!

 

[Jacob]

J...
Log Scales are seldom used today due to calculators taking over I agree but one should at least understand the concept.

So much to understand - so little time!
Unless you really need to of course.

As to sextants well I use mine each week, I do enjoy the calculations being done by "hand" but I do have a full electronic nav system with radar to back up my calcs.
Better safe than sorry.

I've got one too - hardly ever used except for distances off, but I did the RYA Astro nav course years ago without ever going "ocean" enough to use it. Crossed the channel a lot but you don't need astro for that, almanac, paper charts, pencil, instead. Did the maths too but bu*gered if I'd remember any of it now! Haversines and stuff :shock:

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Here are some questions from a GCSE maths paper about five years ago -
What is 17 + 14
Write six thousand and eight in figures
How many 50 pences are there in £200
What is 4 x 28
I was invigilating GCSEs at the time. I did write down ten at the time, and I showed them to ten people that I knew that were in one way or another connected with education, then asked them how old they thought the child they were intended for was. The answers I got were a ten, an eight and eight nines. Of course people say yes, but that's a foundation level paper - but if passed high enough it still counts as a GCSE.

I wonder why this goes to the left hand side only of the page when I try to post if there are posts in the interim?

 

[Jacob]

Here are some questions from a GCSE maths paper about five years ago -
What is 17 + 14
Write six thousand and eight in figures
How many 50 pences are there in £200
What is 4 x 28
I was invigilating GCSEs at the time. I did write down ten at the time, and I showed them to ten people that I knew that were in one way or another connected with education, then asked them how old they thought the child they were intended for was. The answers I got were a ten, an eight and eight nines. Of course people say yes, but that's a foundation level paper - but if passed high enough it still counts as a GCSE.

I wonder why this goes to the left hand side only of the page when I try to post if there are posts in the interim?

Yebbut I bet there were some harder questions in there too!
I suppose basic level exams have to have some easy questions so that everyone gets a meaningful mark, even if a very low one. At least they'd know where they stood!
Similarly when i did my TOPs C&G course years ago we did a maths test with questions like the above, but ranging as far as volume of a cylinder, area of circle etc. Some got zero marks, some got 100%, a lot were in between.

 

[Claymore]

Regarding teachers, how do they cope with so many different nationalities in their classrooms...... do they use interpreters or do they separate the classes? just wondered as when I was at school there was only one foreign student but he spoke English so had no problems but today it must be a nightmare with so many foreign students in class.
Also do the schools/colleges have to stock all the library books again in different languages or is it all digital now?
I saw a TV programme yesterday about one school in London and they had 14 nationalities in one class and many didn`t speak English so how do they teach a mixed class?

 

[RogerS]

I think this kind of proves your point, Beech.

A paper from 1960

and from 2016

Yes but you are only getting 2 mark on the 2nd paper - which means there are another 98 marks to pick up in the rest of the exam (assuming 100 marks available - 50 more pages of same level of difficulty?) whereas the 1st paper is the whole shebang. Different styles of teaching the same stuff.
I take it you'd have no problem with the 2nd paper Roger, if standards really have fallen so low?

Less of the Ad Hominem attacks.

 

[Jacob]

Yawn......

Answer the questions? If you can't answer them how would you know the questions were too easy?

NB I could have answered them a few years back but it's all gone out me 'ed :roll:

PS 'ang on - first one is -2/5? second er, I've forgotten calculus altogether though no doubt it'd come back!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Claymore - my cousin taught in a South London school where nearly sixty languages were spoken. She said they weren't teachers, they were state sponsored babysitters and riot control officers - the better part of her day was spent stopping Pakistanis attacking Indians, Turks attacking Kurds, Kurds from attacking Iraqis, West Africans attacking West Indians, and others (and all vice versa) - a litany of inter racial historic feuds.

 

[Jacob]

Claymore - my cousin taught in a South London school where nearly sixty languages were spoken. She said they weren't teachers, they were state sponsored babysitters and riot control officers - the better part of her day was spent stopping Pakistanis attacking Indians, Turks attacking Kurds, Kurds from attacking Iraqis, West Africans attacking West Indians, and others (and all vice versa) - a litany of inter racial historic feuds.

I expect they'll mostly end up as doctors, dentists, lawyers! Especially if they get enough support in those difficult early years - many of them have had sh|t lives previously and there's nothing they want more than to get way from it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HHT_V294Co

 

[RogerS]

Yawn......

Answer the questions? If you can't answer them how would you know the questions were too easy?

NB I could have answered them a few years back but it's all gone out me 'ed :roll:

PS 'ang on - first one is -2/5? second er, I've forgotten calculus altogether though no doubt it'd come back!

Have you been drinking again ?

 

[Jacob]

Yawn......

Answer the questions? If you can't answer them how would you know the questions were too easy?

NB I could have answered them a few years back but it's all gone out me 'ed :roll:

PS 'ang on - first one is -2/5? second er, I've forgotten calculus altogether though no doubt it'd come back!

Have you been drinking again ?

Yep. Afraid so - only a couple of glasses though!

Regarding teachers, how do they cope with so many different nationalities in their classrooms...... do they use interpreters or do they separate the classes? just wondered as when I was at school there was only one foreign student but he spoke English so had no problems but today it must be a nightmare with so many foreign students in class.
Also do the schools/colleges have to stock all the library books again in different languages or is it all digital now?
I saw a TV programme yesterday about one school in London and they had 14 nationalities in one class and many didn`t speak English so how do they teach a mixed class?

They learn English very fast - they tend to be very motivated.
If it worries you you could volunteer to help "teaching english as a foreign language" - there are courses for helpers and a lot of back up.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

"I expect they'll mostly end up as doctors, dentists, lawyers! Especially if they get enough support in those difficult early years - many of them have had sh|t lives previously and there's nothing they want more than to get way from it." - Jacob

No they were illiterate, innumerate 15 and 16 year olds, most of whom were born in this Country or who had lived here for many years.

 

[Jacob]

A bit of Ukippery emerging here I think.

 

[SammyQ]

As a practicing teacher, with thirty six years experience, all of it up to and including A level, I have read all the preceeding posts with some mixed emotions.

True, successive governments plural and 'Govements' singular have inflicted a plethora of vote-pleasing nonsense on us over the years. The Three R's: Readin' Writin' and Rithmatic, are invaluable standbys and enable we pre-decimal children to perform 'feats' that 'Mental Maths' (I kid you not) dependent modern children can only gawp at. As to whether Logs are still useful, I remember heaving a sigh of relief when calculators freed us up to embrace MORE interesting facts, rather than bashing away for ages with a curser, anti-logs or, if we were really nice to Mr Brown, a sliderule! When I got to University and had to run Fourier analyses of circadioan rhythms, I was heartilly grateful for Apple's first 8 Megabyte computer - the same size as a 4 drawer filing cabinet. It still took the wee beastie 45 mins to process and then print the first line of analysis...what price hand work there eh?

Just my binary 11 pence worth...

Sam

 

[Phil Pascoe]

For some reason the site won't allow me to quote.
Jacob - nothing whatsoever to do with "Ukipery" merely a statement of fact in reply to your bit of politically correct supposition.

 

[owsnap]

I know I will get A lot of hate for this..and what am I even doing in this country.. but whatever...

The kids here I believe have no motivation whatsoever to go and explore and do something off-the-book or something non-standard and everyone in a class can be a winner, there are no loosers the Marks have very little meanings, because everyone gets A marks without actually trying that hard. Everyone can be a winner and get a sticker for just eating his plate clean..or just attending the school.

I remember when I was in school (not in UK ) there could only be 1 best student in class, however from what I have seen everyone can be the best here I had to work hard for my grades and if you didn't ...well... you had to do it or you got really bad marks and were left in that class for a 2nd year and everyone would laugh at you for being such a looser.. It was hard to get 10 for a task, insanely hard, you had to do a hard task just perfect to get a 10 , we had scoring from 1 to 10 not a/b/c... and.. There would be almost no students getting the top marks ever, If you got a 9 or an 8 you already felt super good for doing really good, but everytime you knew you were close enough and you had an actual urge to compete with others and get better at stuff because the 10 mark was almost unachievable by anyone..

The kids were given maybe 1 achievement paper per YEAR, here they give you some kind of achievement paper several times per week, achievement paper even for being a good boy/girl or achievement paper for eating his plate clean, WHAT THE HELL? It just sets the mark so low.. You don't need to do almost anything here to get an achievement reward and again everyone gets one, because otherwise the rest would feel sad..
It's a sad life, only few can be the best, not everyone, if you aren't the best now you can try and be better, but hell no... It would be child abuse over here..


And No the kids didn't really got in a trouble for laughing at others or saying bad words
It was kinda if you are such a ****** than oh well you were thrown under the train and the world would move on.. yes it's harsh and it would be classed as child abuse in UK and everyone would be in shock..But I only now realize that it made everyone achieve so much more...


From the short time I have lived here I realize that people are really discouraged to be a multi-purpose tool and know a lot of things about everything and to be able to do more than 1 task that they have ''trained'' for. Seems like you go to school here, choose your area you want to be in, and that's it- you barely know about anything else than just your 1 task to do. If you get in a non standard situation you are doomed..

Also I went to my sisters school just recently as they had open evening and oh wow, I was simply amazed by how much resources/tech the kids have access to over here, what a world of a difference, I remember we had just some books and that's it.. Kids here are so so so much more lucky to have all this stuff,yet for some reason they are just dumbed-down just to be good at their 1 task.

I'm out, hate all you want, but you can only see these things if you haven't been in this system and have something to compare it with..

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Sammy Q - I was unbelievably fortunate to have the most inspiring teacher I ever had for two years, the year I was due to take the 11 plus. They changed the age limit, so I did the same year twice - in a class of 48 (this was doubly irritating, as I'd jumped a year the year before). I still have an exercise book with additions of pounds, shillings and pence and farthings: bushels, pecks and gallons: furlongs, chains and rods; hundredweights, stones and pounds.
By the bye. He taught us to look for the easy way - if we had to multiply 99 x 7, we multiplied 100 x 7 and subtracted the seven, 3 x 19 shillings and eight pence was a shilling short of three pounds and things like that. He taught us how to estimate - If we had to multiply say 2.8 x 2.8 x 2.9 the answer should be not too much less and certainly not more than if it were 3 x 3 x 3 = 27 - this sounds obvious, but it is not to a ten year old. Similarly if we had to add columns of figures you added 67s and 33s, 48s and 52s, 35s an 65s and so on. I was at a pub quiz one night with a friend who is a retired science teacher and a question was which of these numbers (five or six digit) is a prime number? I looked for a moment and said that one. It was correct, and he looked at me quite mystified and said how on earth did you know? I said that's divisible by three, and that's divisible by three, so it must have been the other one. He burst out laughing. Add the digits together, then add them together again - if the result is divisible by three the whole number is. I was taught that when I was ten - he didn't know. I'd put a smilie in now, but the site is all to hell and won't let me.