Are Grippers much safer than push sticks?

[powertools]

When using a table saw there are a lot of things to to take into account.
No 1 make sure the fence is in line with the blade.
No 2 always use the riving knife.
No 3 always lower the blade to the minimum height to complete the cut.
No 4 always make sure your blade is sharp and is the correct type for the cut you are about to make.
If you have done all of that then you have reduced the chance of having any problem to almost zero.
Having done the above a tennon saw style push stick is the way to go and your other hand can keep the wood against the fence well back from the blade.

 

[Trevanion]

For really awkward cutting I like to use a stick with a sharpened steel point in it in my left hand in conjunction with a push stick in the right. Pointed stick means you can give lateral pressure against the fence from pretty much anywhere on the top of the board without slipping, so long as you don't mind little dimples in the surface!

 

[Spectric]

Hi all

Reading all these post there is one very important point that is missing, that is your enviroment. A cluttered untidy work area that is poorly lit will increase the risk of potential hazards happening, don't rely on safety features just work safely and self preservation should kick in. I find woodworking machinery more hazardous than metalworking and seeing sawblades with those big teeth spining just makes me keep my distance!

 

[ArferMo]

I don't own a table saw but for radial arm ripping the advice I read for ripping stock too narrow for push sticks was to glue the narrow stock first to a wider board of the similar thickness.
I've just used spray mount to fix some aluminium oxide paper flat to a board with pretty instant grip; (UK forum yet the auto-correct wants to spell aluminum!!) . I wonder how successful that might be for the above job?

 

[pcb1962]

I've just used spray mount to fix some aluminium oxide paper flat to a board with pretty instant grip; (UK forum yet the auto-correct wants to spell aluminum!!) . I wonder how successful that might be for the above job?

I use double sided carpet tape for holding parts together temporarily, I wouldn't trust spray mount on parts I was sawing

 

[Trevanion]

I recently picked up a safety pamphlet from the 1930s which goes over push sticks and push blocks (And to think there used to be a member here who was adamant that push blocks were a new-fangled thing made up by the hobby market!)

I've put it up in it's entirety here if you want a look: Vintage Wood Machining Books

 

[TheTiddles]

I usually do not brush a group of people with the same brush - I'd rather take the individual's opinion and evaluate it. Where this opinion comes from does not

If it helps Tony, the USA has over 10x the rate of work related fatalities than the U.K. (based on last year’s numbers) and over 6x the rate of workplace injuries (I’ve not interrogated those numbers for at least a couple of years to be fair). So when I make a point about a country’s attitude to safety, it’s based on that.

I was in a press facility in Wisconsin once, on the wall as we walked in was a big sign that proudly announced it was 59-days (or something) since the last amputation. As we went round there was a siren for a few seconds and as we left someone was peeling the numbers off the wall.

Aidan

 

[Rorschach]

If it helps Tony, the USA has over 10x the rate of work related fatalities than the U.K. (based on last year’s numbers) and over 6x the rate of workplace injuries (I’ve not interrogated those numbers for at least a couple of years to be fair). So when I make a point about a country’s attitude to safety, it’s based on that.

I was in a press facility in Wisconsin once, on the wall as we walked in was a big sign that proudly announced it was 59-days (or something) since the last amputation. As we went round there was a siren for a few seconds and as we left someone was peeling the numbers off the wall.

Aidan

Is that 10x per capita or 10x in general?

 

[TheTiddles]

Is that 10x per capita or 10x in general?

Per 100,000, theirs is 5.something and ours is 0.5, sad hey?

 

[Rorschach]

Per 100,000, theirs is 5.something and ours is 0.5, sad hey?

Very sad indeed. While some of that is reflected in the fact that they have much more manufacturing than we do, it is still a sobering statistic.

 

[recipio]

Eh......the gripper and push sticks are different tools. Its self evident that both are used to keep the hands away from the blade except that the push stick can be used with the guard in place and the gripper can not. Personally I have an American saw which was supplied without a guard. I tried a guard but then found I could not see the wood lifting off the table or the kerf closing up so I prefer to have eyes on with a high 'tenon saw' push stick . I believe most kickbacks are due to forcing the wood through the cut +/- a blunt blade anyway. A lot of people on here seem to use the gripper so I presume they have unguarded blades as well so the argument is the same as for dado blades -- don't use them without a big dollop of common sense.

 

[Doug71]

A lot of saws these days come with a full length fence, this is generally okay for cutting down sheet material but for solid timber it's best for the fence to finish somewhere between the front and middle of the blade. A lot of kickback is avoided if the timber is not trapped between the back of the upwards spinning blade and the fence. This means fitting a sub fence to a lot of saws so it doesn't get done, plus all the American Youtubers use full length fences so that's how people think it should be done

 

[bp122]

I tried to use the gripper style push block at first, then made a shoe style one, tried the plastic one that came with my Axi TS.

In the end, after trying all the types mentioned, I use a shop made featherboard for pressing the workpiece against the blade sideways and use either the plastic push stick that came with the saw or a very similar over that I made out of thinner stock.

When and if I can't use the feather board, I use both the sticks mentioned.

I think common sense prevails here, be as far away from the blade as you possibly can to do the work at all times.

 

[tony359]

I have now made my first cuts on my 745. And it is so obvious in my mind that there is no chance that my hands can go close to that spinning blade - either by using a gripper or by pushing the wood by hand as seen on many videos online.
It reminds me the first time I stepped on a scaffolding without a hard hat (don't say anything, I was young ) - it took me a just a couple of minutes to realise that I NEEDED one.

Regarding the feather board, I now see why it can be useful. However I'm wondering if there is any chance that the piece being cut, when it eventually runs past the 'feathers', could get a slight counter-clockwise rotation which may push the front edge of the wood towards the blade? I am not sure whether this makes any sense to you.

 

[transatlantic]

In the end, after trying all the types mentioned, I use a shop made featherboard for pressing the workpiece against the blade sideways and use either the plastic push stick that came with the saw or a very similar over that I made out of thinner stock.

I assume you wrote that in error. The featherboard should never push the workpiece against the blade. It should be in front of the blade.

 

[bp122]

Oops, I meant to say in the direction of the blade, not in line with the blade and indeed in front of it. Sorry, should have been clearer. Well spotted!

 

[transatlantic]

Regarding the feather board, I now see why it can be useful. However I'm wondering if there is any chance that the piece being cut, when it eventually runs past the 'feathers', could get a slight counter-clockwise rotation which may push the front edge of the wood towards the blade? I am not sure whether this makes any sense to you.

It might seem counterintuitive, but when using push sticks, you actually want to have the stick closer to the blade than to the fence (left side of center of the workpiece). This way, any induced rotation will rotate clockwise, pushing the work piece against the fence. If you do the opposite and have the push stick closer to the fence than to the blade (right side of center), the workpiece will rotate anticlockwise into the blade.

 

[tony359]

@transatlantic
I understand and I get why you want to do that with your push sticks. That is why I am a bit concerned that a feather board may induce a rotation just when the piece exits the "fingers" of the feather. But maybe it is just me overthinking

I made a quick sketch to explain - please don't laugh

 

[Droogs]

Your fence should be positioned so the the end is somewhere between the D in wood and the A in blade. Doing this and positioning the push stick that is providing the moving force to the blade side half of the board helps prevent both kickback and the chance of the board rotating anti-clockwise.
Having the fence positioned as it is in the picture increases the probability that the board will rotate

hth

 

[Just4Fun]

@tony359 and @Droogs. Between the two of you, you have confused me completely. Not difficult at the best of times but even easier when discussing power tools, which I do not use. Anyway ...
Tony, with the wood as it is in your sketch, surely the blade will not cut it at all. Indeed, with the wood like that and the feather board not moving, I don't see how the blade can cut anything apart from stray fingers.
Droogs, when you mention the position of the fence do you mean the position of the feather board?
Or should I go back to my hand tools and keep quiet?