Applying Shellac

[wizer]

Hi guys.

I'm just nearing the completion of a long term but simple project and I want to use shellac. I made some test boards and the boss agreed that shellac was the nicest. So this morning I nipped down to toolstation and bought a bottle of their transparent shellac polish. I applied it with a cotton 'rubber' in one direction. The resulting finish is less than desirable. It's not dried smooth and, even after I denibbed it with 1200 webrax, it was still a bit rough and uneven. Should I sand it back and apply a thinned coat, or am I doing something else wrong?

The wood is beech, pre-sanded to 320g and wiped with a tack cloth.

TIA

 

[Philly]

Tom
How many coats did you give? I normally use three, then leave to dry. A sand down with 320 grit will remove any nibs, and a final thin wipe over with the rubber restores the surface.
Hope this helps
Philly

 

[wizer]

Just one so far. So just keep going, sanding down with 320 per coat? The bottle says 20mins to dry. Do you leave it longer?

Cheers

 

[Philly]

Its dries in a couple of minutes - I wait until I can sand without it clumping on the sandpaper. If you get fine dust, its dry. I find the finish takes another couple of days to completely cure - you'll see it sink down a little as it cures.
As for application, I apply three coats one after another. If you find the rag sticking to the finish give it a couple minutes to dry before adding any more layers.
The more layers you add, the glossier the finish. I love shellac
Philly

 

[marcus]

Hi,

The spirit base of the shellac mixture can raise the grain of many timbers just like water does. This can happen even if you have previously raised the grain with water.

I suspect that this is what happening to you. It's quite normal. You might need to go back to p180 between the first couple of coats and more or less sand the shellac right off again until the timber is smooth. After doing this one or two times you will find the shellac will go on and remain smooth apart from the tiny nibs you were expecting and which can be removed with 320.

Remember to use a tack cloth!

Marcus

 

[wizer]

Thanks chaps, makes sense.

 

[woodbloke]

The knives in the avatar are polished with shellac that I make myself...disolve some blonde flakes in some meths and then apply with a rubber. It usually takes a few minutes to dry but I don't know how many coats go onto the handles. If I start to polish about T time then sufficient coats have been applied by about 11pm so that it's a high gloss...so it' a lot. :shock: I let the polish harden off over night and then give it a bit of wax, I don't ever have to de-nib as it's a pretty constant process of applying the shellac so I guess that one coat blends into the next - Rob

 

[Gower]

Excuse my ignorance and butting in to Tom's thread, but is there are lot of difference between Shellac and Sanding sealer. I apply sanding sealer with a rag. You have to be pretty smart to get a nice even coating because it drys in seconds but the results seem to be pretty good. . What are the advantages of shellac?
Cheers,
Jim

 

[wizer]

Interesting question which I'd like to hear the answer to.

I went for the shellac as the shellac sanding sealer test that I did was very clear but had a nice sheen to it. However, the 'pale' shellac I bought from Toolstation is quite a bit darker unfortunately. I'm considering just using the SS.

I assume Shellac Sanding sealer is just shellac with a higher percentage of meths ?

Is meths the only thing that will dissolve the flakes?

 

[Philly]

Tom
The sanding sealer has silica in it as a filler to build up the surface quicker and make sanding easier. Shellac will dissolve in alcohol, so get the vodka out :lol:

Jim
The sanding sealer you use - is it shellac based or cellulose?

Cheers
Philly

 

[Gower]

Hello Philly, the sanding sealer I use is Cellulose based (I love the smell - oh. God, I'm a glue sniffer!)

 

[Philly]

Jim
Ahh...cellulose! Quite a smell.. :lol:

Advantage to me of shellac is it doesn't dry quite so fast, keeping a wet edge is somewhat easier. It also doesn't smell so strongly! And you can keep adding additional coats until you reach the degree of shine you desire (i.e, a single coat to seal a surface or many coats for gloss). Each coat burns into the layers beneath giving one thicker layer - no problems with "sand-through".
And if you really hate what you've done you can remove the whole lot with a meths filled rag - DAMHIKT :wink:

Hope this helps,
Philly

 

[wizer]

And if you really hate what you've done you can remove the whole lot with a meths filled rag - DAMHIKT :wink:

Yes that might be necessary. Earlier today I sanded it back to 120 then 180 then 240 and applied a couple of coats of shellac sanding sealer to each part. I much prefer the lighter tone of the SS. It went better this time but I'm having a problem with build up at the edges. I guess this is just a technique issue. I just applied 3 more coats to the other side of the each part and it was a little better this time. Tomorrow I will denibb with 320 and then assemble the project. Hopefully the final coats will be a bit better.

 

[woodbloke]

...then assemble the project.

What project, where?...no pics, did it or has it happened? :-k - Rob

 

[Philly]

Tom
Yes, its easy to get dribbles at the edges. I try and rub them out with the rubber. If not, let them dry then sand them out.
The lovely thing with shellac is you can keep refining and building your surface, sanding out imperfections. But one more coat restores the surface.
Keep with it - its a great finish when you get used to it.
Cheers
Philly

 

[wizer]

Rob, it's clearly not finished yet :roll: :wink:

Cheers Phil. I'll have another play tomorrow.

 

[xy mosian]

Hi,

For my twopen'orth.

I have been lucky to have been given 'French Polishing' lessons by an apprenticed trained polisher who then became a friend.

His approach when shellac polishing, was to use a polishing mop, brush to you and me, to apply the first two or three thinned coats. Rubbing back between each when dry. This puts a lot of body onto the surface very quickly. In fact his words were ' Do this until the grain is full'.

The mop had Bear hair bristle, and seemed expensive. The old shaving brush was often badger hair, which may also be classed as a bear of sorts and was very similar and somewhat cheaper ( should that be Less Expensive? ).

Hope this helps.

xy

 

[Streepips]

Same as you xy, I have always used a brush. Can give you whatever finish you want . matt. silk sheen, gloss mirror gloss.
I have been doing it this way for over 20 years, and yes. I can use a rubber. apprenticed trained.
As said above, the brush is quick, applies a good body quickly and is an easy clean up.
on a warm day with a fresh mix it dries almost as soon as its applied and flattable immediately.
I use various grades of paper working through to a finish but always take the face off new paper, IE: rubbing a sheet against another sheet or you will get scratch lines....If the paper clogs at all, leave it its not dry.
The main reason for flatting it is because the surface attracts dust, which is easily removed with a very light abrading. Amount of coats depends on the job in hand. If the finish is developing ridges or tram lines it needs thinning or leaving longer between coats, or even a fresh mix making up.
Even if its is drying as its applied I always leave 30 mins at least for it to "cure", otherwise the previous coat can begin to soften and drag.
Final finish is a paste or cream wax.

I have even coloured shellac which is not possible with water or oil based stains and dyes, using earth colours ( mineral powders) sprinkled into a container of shellac, put a lid on the container ( tupperware is good for this) mount a random O sander without paper in a bench vice switch on and hold the pot on to the pad........ Its not a true mix, more a suspension, but evenly dispersed and if applied immediately its very effective.....
For example of use, a Yellow ochre mix applied to a mahogany gives a great teak lookalike for furniture matching, and unlike a dye or stain can be shade and intensity controlled relatively easily.
If the finish goes cloudy it is blooming and means the air ( or material) is too damp. This will disappear as the humidity is decreased.

 

[wizer]

Well last night's attempt also failed. I just can't get a flat even finish with it.

Off it comes tonight and back to the Osmo :? :roll:

 

[Derek Willis.]

I am so pleased to see a number of posts on the use of Shellac especially in the French Polish way.
I have been a long time user of thie finish and have passed on my knowledge and some tips to many people over the years, the most wonderful thing about using shellac, is that, you cannot make a mess of it, if you don't like the finish, go over it again.
I have just finished an old Oak table that had to be repaired and then sanded back, I stained it to match using Van **** Crystal Stain, then went through the full French Polishing bit and we have ended up with a beatiful table top that looks no different to the rest of the timber.
Derek.