Apologies for yet another choice bandsaw thread

[craigs]

I find myself in a dilemma.

I took a trip down to Yandles yesterday t look at the Laguna 14bx.....didnt have any

Im looking to spend around 1500 and was pretty much set on the 14bx...until the guy in the shop was saying the Sabre 450 although made in china has excellent aftercare which is UK based. I have always discounted record power as i thought they were in the same league as draper etc.

He was saying the laguna could be a pita if anything went wrong.......then i started to look again at Axminster. are there any others i should be looking at? I have a 16a commando in the garage. im looking to use it mainly for ripping and resawing Oak/Walnut upto 300mm all the saws i have looked at state at least 300mm cut capacity and they all seem to be around 1500w output.

all help greatly appreciated
Cheers

 

[Ttrees]

Hello, what length of stock are you planning on resawing?
300mm is a tall order for anything less than 200kg 20" machine.

I suggest you look for second hand three phase machines that have dual voltage motors, and stick a hundred quid VFD on them, that's if you don't have a say an old 3hp single phase motor knocking about.

Did you have a gander on ebay or gumtree?
using all the keywords like bandsaw and band saw on ebay, aswell as searching 3 phase or three phase machine/machinery.

It would be helpful if the rules were clear on this about folks giving advice on a second hand machine.
It seems that it would be frowned upon to suggest anything on the used marketplace which definitely has a buy it now price, and would clearly be in a factory or similar furniture business premises, as in not pictured from the back of a van or whatever, and as long as its nothing to do with the suggester, then whats the problem?

I've no bother having a quick look and PMing you on the best machines out there
that I see online...

Is that OK with these new rules?

For example, I see two pristine machines that are listed for 1000 on gumtree that would be worth looking at.
You could get the same or better though for that price.
There's better value to be had on some slightly larger machines than 20"
but getting the impression that someone who wants a 450mm sized saw wants the same floor footprint, which are all the same up to a 20" machine,
as afterwards that footprint gets a bit more once you get to a 24" machine.


Tom

 

[craigs]

Thanks for the response, Im happy to re-evaluate and save up a bit more. I have no intention of buying a used machine as I want the piece of mind of a guarantee and support as well as part availability not being a tinkerer.

 

[Ttrees]

Then I suggest you go for an Italian style machine, as all the parts are available
and most parts are interchangeable.
That includes Hammer/Felder in that list of Italian style machines.
Even parts for modern Wadkin machines are available from Scott&sargeant.
That is tires and guides and prob a few other things which are the consumables.
other things like belts are standard and can be bought off the shelf in places that sell or service ride on lawnmowers.
Bearings are standard on them too, as with all new machines from anywhere.
Most of the Italian machines since the 80's has been relatively a totally unchanged design, you can get an eye for them.
The only difference is trunion design, and a hole added for dust collection.
Not much to a bandsaw really.


Otherwise with a small light machine you probably would be replacing parts frequently like guides screech and rub like hell on an undersized saw, compared to a larger quieter saw,
300mm resawing is quite a task, don't be fooled by snazzy video's that will demonstrate only the start and near the end of the cut.

Tom

 

[Blackswanwood]

Then I suggest you go for an Italian style machine, as all the parts are available
and most parts are interchangeable.
That includes Hammer/Felder in that list of Italian style machines.
Even parts for modern Wadkin machines are available from Scott&sargeant.
That is tires and guides and prob a few other things which are the consumables.
other things like belts are standard and can be bought off the shelf in places that sell or service ride on lawnmowers.
Bearings are standard on them too, as with all new machines from anywhere.
Most of the Italian machines since the 80's has been relatively a totally unchanged design, you can get an eye for them.
The only difference is trunion design, and a hole added for dust collection.
Not much to a bandsaw really.


Otherwise with a small light machine you probably would be replacing parts frequently like guides screech and rub like hell on an undersized saw, compared to a larger quieter saw,
300mm resawing is quite a task, don't be fooled by snazzy video's that will demonstrate only the start and near the end of the cut.

Tom

Tom, what are the characteristics/differentiators of an Italian style machine?

Cheers

 

[Ttrees]

" Tom, what are the characteristics/differentiators of an Italian style machine? "

Basically, anything that sounds like an Italian footballer


Not many differences, I will try to answer them as best I can.
Basically
The shape of the frame is what I was referring to, although there is a new generation of Italian machines that now have a wheel size to match the resaw capacity and heavier motor and frame.
I believe the "classic" design (that I was referring to) is still available from various companies, although you will see Centauro machines that are a bit different aswell as Meber, there are similarities.

The more basic Italian saws are simple without much extras, if you wanted some
You could buy an old SCM machine that has some extras like rack and pinion table adjustment, (probably the most useful regarding Italian machines)
you may find a brake on some Felder machines, (could be fitted to many like my machine, why ever you'd want that, VFD takes care of that business)
(The brake on some Felders which frame used to be sourced from Italy and looks the same as the rest)

You have a solid rack and pinion adjustment guide post on all, that uses the standard guide mount size to fit proper roller guides like gl456 or other kinds, like Wadkin did also.
Beefy cast iron wheels, Flat tires, the SCM ones have a groove cut into them
whereas the simples Italian saws have vulcanized rubber tires.
Simple tensioning system without springs.

The simpler Italian machines basically adhering to the principal of mass and frame strength for affordability, you want extras look for Felder or SCM.
Then the others are more specced to heavier use like the Centauro/SCM and somewhere seemingly in-between the ACM SNAC series with 40mm added to the standard metric size for a given hundred mm wheel size.

So what I'm saying there are kinda two choices of Italian or Italian style saw, if your only looking for that, and not Wadkin, or other English machine like Multico, Old Startrite or something else that's uncommon.

Tom

 

[MikeK]

I bought a Record Power BS350S because I bought fast instead of taking my time and buying smart. The RP appears to be from the same production line as the Rikon saws available in the U.S., and likely other brands as well, with the Rikon 10-324 and RP BS350S looking suspiciously like long lost brothers. I took a gamble and ordered the upper and lower tool-free blade guide upgrade for the Rikon 10-324 to fit to my RP. I also ordered a bunch of blades from TuffSaws.

Money wasn't the issue when I bought the RP, it was not knowing what I really wanted, what was available, and where to look. I'm sure I might get the RP dialed in as good as it will get, but I would gladly trade it and a handfull of cash for one of the older machines Tom describes. I am eagerly waiting on the RP to break so I can replace it with one of the SCM saws.

 

[craigs]

I do like the SCM machines as well as the Hammer/Felder, im just not sure i can justify 3.5k + as a weekend warrior. maybe i just need to lower my expectations.

 

[Ttrees]

500 to a thousand is what I would be looking to spend.
Have you looked for any used ones Craig?

Tom

 

[craigs]

i have not, a lot has put me off looking for used machines, delivery, possibilities of having to fix something without having a clue etc.

 

[Ttrees]

Maybe try ScottandSargeant for their used stuff.
I'm sure they wouldn't let anything out the door without being tip top, and they might have a delivery company to do the journey.
All the best
Tom

 

[MikeK]

What I don't know about resawing will fill volumes, but in addition to the cut capacity you also have to consider the amount of tension the saw can apply to the blade, the diameter of the wheels, and the power of the motor. I think my RP might just taunt me with being almost close enough.

Based on the recommendation from Ian at TuffSaws, I ordered the 1/2-inch 3TPI M42 blade to resaw some 8 to 10-inch beech. He told me the 1/2-inch M42 blades need about the same amount of tension as a 5/8-inch carbon steel blade, but they last five times longer.

Although the published maximum for my RP is a 3/4-inch blade, I doubt I could use a 3/4-inch M42 blade on it because I don't think I could ever realize the tension required for it.

 

[sunnybob]

You have to bear in mind that Yandles is one of the biggest Record Power main dealers in the country. It's very unlikely a sales assistant there would praise ANY other make of machine .
Buy in haste, repent at leisure.

 

[clogs]

Craig,
dont be put off by used machinery...there's alot of firms going under and now's the time to buy.....
with bandsaws as long as it's in one piece it'll be fine......so easy to work on or pay a few quid to get somebody to do any jobs for u.....with the big b/saws, unless they've been knocked over by a forklift they are practically indistructable.....
when I drive around u can see the antique machine still being used onfarms etc....
I understand where ur going with buying new machines but the back up service is only as good as the guy that drives the van......!!!!!
for anyone interested I heard that
[email protected] do a good job for a fair price.....a small firm that just moves ur stuff not a 40' artic with tons o stuff on board...

 

[craigs]

You have to bear in mind that Yandles is one of the biggest Record Power main dealers in the country. It's very unlikely a sales assistant there would praise ANY other make of machine .
Buy in haste, repent at leisure.

didn't know that

 

[craigs]

Craig,
dont be put off by used machinery...there's alot of firms going under and now's the time to buy.....
with bandsaws as long as it's in one piece it'll be fine......so easy to work on or pay a few quid to get somebody to do any jobs for u.....with the big b/saws, unless they've been knocked over by a forklift they are practically indistructable.....
when I drive around u can see the antique machine still being used onfarms etc....
I understand where ur going with buying new machines but the back up service is only as good as the guy that drives the van......!!!!!
for anyone interested I heard that
[email protected] do a good job for a fair price.....a small firm that just moves ur stuff not a 40' artic with tons o stuff on board...

I did actually venture into fleabay/gumtree and S&S's used section and couldnt find bugger all except S&S had a used centura with i expect to be a lot of money

 

[RogerS]

...

It would be helpful if the rules were clear on this about folks giving advice on a second hand machine.
It seems that it would be frowned upon to suggest anything on the used marketplace which definitely has a buy it now price, and would clearly be in a factory or similar furniture business premises, as in not pictured from the back of a van or whatever, and as long as its nothing to do with the suggester, then whats the problem?
...

Tom

Tom, unless I misunderstood the above, you're free to offer any advice regarding buying secondhand machines and it would be very welcome.

 

[PAC1]

It depends how much 300mm resawing you intend to do. If it is the occasional piece then something like the RP BS400 will serve you well once you tune it up and fit a good blade. I resaw 8-12" on mine no problem with a new blade careful set up and no rush. Several of us on here have one and regard them as good value. They are often on offer. It is also one of the largest machines to run of a 3 pin 13amp plug. Over the years I have found RP to be reasonable. Yes much of their product is made in China but it is subject to British QA and British Guarantee
If it is a lot of resawing then either save up for Hammer/Felder, Jet or Axminster, or an "italian"or go second hand.

 

[craigs]

It depends how much 300mm resawing you intend to do. If it is the occasional piece then something like the RP BS400 will serve you well once you tune it up and fit a good blade. I resaw 8-12" on mine no problem with a new blade careful set up and no rush. Several of us on here have one and regard them as good value. They are often on offer. It is also one of the largest machines to run of a 3 pin 13amp plug. Over the years I have found RP to be reasonable. Yes much of their product is made in China but it is subject to British QA and British Guarantee
If it is a lot of resawing then either save up for Hammer/Felder, Jet or Axminster, or an "italian"or go second hand.

its not going to be a daily use as woodwork is purely a hobby for me. but i would rather buy something that i know that can do what i ask of it rather than have the need and have to buy something else....buy once , buy right etc.

Electrics aren't an issue, i just had a 16a circuit installed for this reason.

I have come round to looking at used machinery places and it seems you do get a bit more machine for the money

 

[sunnybob]

300 cut mm is a VERY BIG machine. If youre only hobby, do you need that much? My axminster 350 will saw up to 200 mm (if I remove the guide block ) I make bandsaw boxes and thats enough for my use.