Anyone used a website designer for a small business website?

[RogerS]

Yes I do. But that works on me chatting to, say, the guys that cut our hedge. They now know that I do windows etc and will recommend me on. But I can't make the jump to tweeting. Social networking off the net is more reactive viz the hedge guys.

Tweeting seems pro-active but in a negative way. So the people in my network get a tweet from me telling them that I've just got a new saw. Their reaction is going to be 'so what'. Or even more extreme. They know I do windows. If they want one made then they'll pick up the phone.

 

[RogerS]

....
its basically the same as word of mouth innit - if a happy customer links your facebook page to theirs then their freinds can see you .....

But don't these people feed on having zillions of 'friends'. So why is anyone going to sit there and look through Joe Bloggs 45689 friends ? Out of boredom? Don't they have a life?

 

[big soft moose]

Tweeting seems pro-active but in a negative way. So the people in my network get a tweet from me telling them that I've just got a new saw. Their reaction is going to be 'so what'. Or even more extreme. They know I do windows. If they want one made then they'll pick up the phone.

I think the thing is that if you are using twitter as a marketting tool you wouldnt tweet in the same way as if you were using it socially - the standard tweet style of " I bought a new saw", " I made a cup of coffee" etc does indeed invite the response of "who gives a **** " but if you are using it as a marketting tool your tweets would be about jobs you've finished, new products you've made, things you can offer your customers etc... in short stuff that is of interest to potential customers

 

[big soft moose]

....
its basically the same as word of mouth innit - if a happy customer links your facebook page to theirs then their freinds can see you .....

But don't these people feed on having zillions of 'friends'. So why is anyone going to sit there and look through Joe Bloggs 45689 friends ? Out of boredom? Don't they have a life?

true - but the idea is that say you've just fitted my windows, i would then "become a fan" of your page and a box would pop up for me to add comment before it was posted on my profile in which i could write my comments about your jobs so the post on my profile would read

"Pete became a fan of Rogerswindowspage

" this guys just finished fitting my windows and his work was the absolute dogs, i'd highly recomend him to anyone "

with the rogerswindowspage being a link to your page

that would be at the top of my profile, and would also get posted on the news pages for all my freinds - essentially free advertising for you, and my freinds wouldnbt have to look through all zillion freinds to see your page because it would be right there in front of them

 

[wizer]

I'm not 'up' on Twitter, but why would a businessman be tweeting about buying tools? I'm not sure twitter is particularly the right tool for your type of business. You would be better off investigating both FaceBook and LinkedIn. Facebook works how both myself and Olly have explained above. LinkedIn is more like a business directory. Again, LinkedIn is not something I have used much, apart from a nosey around. I've read a few articles about this stuff, so I'm aware what people are using. It seems to be working for people and those that do use it seem positive about it.

I must stress, these tools are additional to a good website, they do not replace it. It's a way to get people to your site. Getting people to your site generates traffic. Google likes traffic and will rank you higher based on links back to you. That's not the only way to get higher in the rankings, just one part of the puzzle. A well written website is still the core of your SEO (I hate that term) plan.

Networking, be it on the web or IRL, is all about generating interest in your business and getting your name about. The more networking you do, the more your name is fresh in both prospective clients and complimentary businessmen's minds. It's not easy, you have to tackle it right, be positive and persevere.

It makes sense to me. I think it takes an open mind and the realisation that these services are extremely popular with a great deal of people, worldwide. There are other marketing routes and those may work for certain people. The important thing about Internet Social Networking, is that it's free.

 

[matt]

So the people in my network get a tweet from me telling them that I've just got a new saw. Their reaction is going to be 'so what'.

Which is kinda what I was driving at when I asked who is going to "follow". I know loads of people who Facebook, Tweet, etc. Many of them follow bands, or brands, or events, or similar. I've not had single conversation with any one of them who has bought a nice little bespoke bedside cabinet as a result of being tweeted. Meanwhile, around here... Someone else's blog is more likely to result in having a go at making something the same in the workshop.

 

[wizer]

FaceBook and Twitter does not just attract young or 'white trash' type users who are just interested in talking inane bullsh*t. There are many businessmen or just ordinary people who are using it to keep in contact with their network of friends. To stereotype every user of social networking sites as morons, would be foolish.

If you want to use these services for business purposes, then reporting on mundane stuff would be wrong. Obviously. Think of it as advertising but on a slightly more personal level.

But if you really don't understand it or care about it.... then don't use it. It's not the end of the world. If traditional marketing is working for you, then you have nothing else to worry about.

 

[RogerS]

I understand what you're saying, wizer and BSM, but I still don't see how it will work. I think that we're agreed that Twitter isn't really relevant.

I looked at LinkedIn and gave a big yawn. OK- I registered as it's free. I linked into some people in my contacts database who are also on LinkedIn. But they already know what i do and so I am still left with a big resounding 'so what'. What IS the point of LinkedIn? Trying to prove the six-points-of-contact theory?

So Facebook. I can understand it for a product, like the magazine, that has a market that is geographically diverse and is a commodity. I looked at Charlie's site. Apart from an ego-trip and telling his mates what he's doing, how does that help other people 'find' him and think ...ooh, I must ring him for a coffee table? If this prospect lives at the other end of the country, hardly viable, is it?

I CAN see it working if, like Brad, you are on the outskirts of a megaloplis but for the likes of me, sorry, I can't see how it can benefit me.

Don't get me wrong...if something works and is free then I'm all for it..just that I can't see how it will work for me.

 

[matt]

Roger, I'm not familiar with your market - I've had a quick look at your sites but not much more. If, for example, you were working on a major restoration project likely to attract attention then I can see benefit in you associating yourself with that projects Facebook group. Or... if you're aware of a major restoration or similar and there was a Facebook group for it then it's worth joining because it puts you in the frame.

My scepticism is existing and expecting to be "followed" in your own right as a relative unknown.

 

[RogerS]

Roger, I'm not familiar with your market - I've had a quick look at your sites but not much more. If, for example, you were working on a major restoration project likely to attract attention then I can see benefit in you associating yourself with that projects Facebook group. Or... if you're aware of a major restoration or similar and there was a Facebook group for it then it's worth joining because it puts you in the frame.

Now that makes a lot of sense.

My scepticism is existing and expecting to be "followed" in your own right as a relative unknown.

Not sure I follow you ? :?

 

[matt]

My scepticism is existing and expecting to be "followed" in your own right as a relative unknown.

Not sure I follow you ? :?

Just reiterating what I think we've both been saying. If you were Mr Nike and made windows with the swooosh then you'd have a Facebook group and you'd be followed because of brand awareness (perhaps not a brilliant example). By contrast I found a window restorer with 27 "friends".

Social networking is either big-world (Nike, U2, Lego, Coke), big-specialist (Axminster, I work at [insert your company name here], before jumping to the opposite extreme - tiny tiny tiny (me). There's no middle ground - e.g. window restoration in the south-east group to which the tiny can attach and therefore gain exposure.

 

[RogerS]

Succinctly put, Matt, and I couldn't agree more with you.

 

[Rob_H]

Just to cover a couple of points - it's not a woodie site I have - I'm an antiques dealer (part time - mainly 17th and 18th c country furniture).

I have linked in to twitter and facebook for marketting and need to get the site ranked on google - I suppose through increased traffic.

I'm worried the site doesn't look professional enough - I may well drop Tom a line. It's a site I need to be able to update myself almost daily as my stock changes. Thanks for all of the advice so far.

 

[RogerS]

Just to cover a couple of points - it's not a woodie site I have - I'm an antiques dealer (part time - mainly 17th and 18th c country furniture).

I have linked in to twitter and facebook for marketting and need to get the site ranked on google - I suppose through increased traffic.

I'm worried the site doesn't look professional enough - I may well drop Tom a line. It's a site I need to be able to update myself almost daily as my stock changes. Thanks for all of the advice so far.

But what would people search for to get to you? The term 'antique furniture' gives over half a million hits!

Have you looked at other sites such as this one http://www.antiqueoakfurniture.co.uk/fu ... ntury.html ?

 

[matt]

Just to cover a couple of points - it's not a woodie site I have - I'm an antiques dealer (part time - mainly 17th and 18th c country furniture).

I have linked in to twitter and facebook for marketting and need to get the site ranked on google - I suppose through increased traffic.

I'm worried the site doesn't look professional enough - I may well drop Tom a line. It's a site I need to be able to update myself almost daily as my stock changes. Thanks for all of the advice so far.

I'm intrigued having had some experience with antiques and web sites (for antique dealers)... What sort of traffic are you expecting the site to drive? Enquiries leading to visits to your premises or pure sales? I realise a sale is desirable but is that what you are EXPECTING? A few years back we found that the site prompted quite a few international sales that subsequently failed to go ahead because of the shipping costs. Meanwhile, a lot of UK people visited the shop saying they'd seen the website. Some travelled quite a distance demonstrating a reluctance to buy over the web. This was a few years back - have things changed in your experience?

There were some other odd phenomenon around site design that I'll not go in to here because our observations were purely speculative and coincided with a significant drop-off in the antiques market a few years back so could be coincidental. However, suffice to say, beware of appearing too professional... I would not invest a huge amount of effort in making it look too professional until you're confident that is does, in fact, lead to more enquiries.

 

[Mr T]

Hi

Matt said

Social networking is either big-world (Nike, U2, Lego, Coke), big-specialist (Axminster, I work at [insert your company name here], before jumping to the opposite extreme - tiny tiny tiny (me). There's no middle ground - e.g. window restoration in the south-east group to which the tiny can attach and therefore gain exposure.

Having tried Twitter for a few weeks I agree. It seems to me that Twitter is a bit like being in a big room with thousands of people all shouting at once. How do you attract the attention of the people you want to contact?
I think, possibly, that Facebook is a better medium, which I need to investigate.

The problem with all this is you can spend all your time on the computer, something my wife is making pointed comments about!

Regarding SEO the webdesigner I am talking to says that registering with DMOZ helps to get you up the search engines. I know that these magic bullets come and go, but he seems to thing that it's the bees knees (or D'sB's) Has anyone tried DMOZ?

The other problem with Twitteris you've only got 140 characters and as you can see I'm a bit verbose!!

Chris

 

[Anonymous]

just looking through all these replies

I had an ecommerce website selling wall brackets for TV's which is a highly competitive market with chinese imports etc etc. I am in the throws of rebranding it and going down a different route i will keep you posted as to what it is when its up and running.

After loads of research on website optimisation, basically a few years ago just to get to the top of google it was a case of repeating the key phrases a million times, so in my case had i repeatedly used TV mounts, TV wall mounts etc, google would have picked this up and sent me to the top. But then google got very very smart and designed a new ranking algorithm code, where basically it now ranks on content and how well the content is written as well as having link backs to your website. So for someone like aximinster every single time we as users do a link to axminsters website from here their rank on google is so much better off hence their presence at the top of google.

So these high ranking websites, don't use social networking sites to get their name around, its to create link backs to their sites to keep up their page rank within google.

There is a little more to it than that i know, but google ranks your website on its relevent content and on how popular it is with other sites.

 

[wizer]

I'm not so confident that DMOZ is particularly useful. Not a waste of time IMO, but certainly not any sort of solution. It won't get you high in the ranks on it's own. SEO is such a controversial subject and a lot of designers are using it to inflate their prices or quality of service. However, SEO is just common sense and should be part of any well developed website solution, not an extra.

 

[Anonymous]

PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important".

from wiki

 

[RogerS]

The SEO consultant cometh