Anyone near me that can sharpen my tools?

[Robbo3]

I posted this in another reply but it's all good basic information.

Most beginners benefit from using a jig to sharpen bowl & spindle gouges. A basic one is fairly easy to make & to use:
- viewtopic.php?t=4443
- viewtopic.php?t=5360
or

Cap'n Eddie Castelin - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i9RDnJHz9g
&

probably the original - the Ellsworth jig (opens as a PDF file which can be saved to your PC)
- http://www2.woodcraft.com/PDF/77B61.pdf

As well as the gouge holder, using this system with the tool handle resting in the socket of the sliding base & the length suitably adjusted, you can also sharpen any tool that requires a straight across grind, evenly & consistantly eg parting tools, narrow skews, spindle roughing gouges, even bowl gouges.

Lots of good info to help you understand the shape of the tool (bottom of page)
- http://www.peterchild.co.uk/info1/sflute.htm
- bowl-gouge-sharpening-t42517.html

--
Also,
About 3 years ago I knocked up one of the home made holders for a friend who was too scared to sharpen his gouges. In my haste I got something wrong & it had a pronounced wobble but I used it to give him a demo anyway.
He took it home with the intention of copying it. Instead he used a load of glue to fix the wobble & is still using it today.

The norm is to let the gouge project 2" from the holder, adjust the sliding base to match the bevel already ground (using a marker pen on the bevel helps) then grind gently, using little more than the weight of the tool. The shape of the finished grind is controlled by the operator spending more or less time on particular areas - the nose generally needing less work than the sides.

HTH

 

[Tazmaniandevil]

I made the wooden jig to begin with and had really good success with it. I have since copied the Cap'n Eddie jig with less than a tenner's worth of square tube from B&Q. The baskets are fairly rubbish but do the job. I will re-make those in the new year though. I use the belt sander to keep the edge on my skew chisels with a domed bevel. I find this easier to use, so horses for courses.
As already mentioned, you will eventually get a grind that works for you - we are all different and stance etc. makes a difference to whether a particular grind is right for your needs.
One of these is a good investment, or you can make one from sheet metal if you can cut it accurately enough.

I would love to be able to sharpen free hand, but as my turning is confined to a few hours at the weekend I don't get enough practice.

 

[Jacob]

....
I would love to be able to sharpen free hand, but as my turning is confined to a few hours at the weekend I don't get enough practice.

OK I know I've said it many times - but if you are short of time then freehand is the way.
Modern turners seem to have been talked into incredibly complex fiddling with jigs. Particularly difficult bearing in mind the many variations possible with turning tools and sharpening kit.
It doesn't matter if you get it wrong - any sharp edge will cut but with time you will find your own way.
If you are reluctant to lose the shape of a newly bought chisel you could photograph it first - freehand sharpening is a visual thing. No need to give up at the first hurdle and assume you can't do it.

Using tools and sharpening them are inseparable parts of the same task. If you are going to send them away as per our OP you might as well send away your bits of wood at the same time and get them turned for you.

 

[Rhossydd]

....but with time

And there's the problem. Most of us don't have unlimited time and resources, so need a little help to make sure we make the best out of what we've got.

 

[Tazmaniandevil]

OK I know I've said it many times - but if you are short of time then freehand is the way.
Modern turners seem to have been talked into incredibly complex fiddling with jigs. Particularly difficult bearing in mind the many variations possible with turning tools and sharpening kit.

My jig has pre-set positions for my tools which are very quickly set, and I know I get a consistent grind every single time. I know I can take a few seconds to slip the tool in the holder, adjust the jig and then a few rubs will give me the edge I need. I have wasted too many tools trying to sharpen free-hand to make me want to keep trying. I simply can't afford to keep replacing tools every few months.
Just my personal experience y'understand.

 

[Jacob]

Yebbut sharpening a turning tool (ideally against a flat disc or belt sander etc) is very similar to the action of turning itself. If you can do one you can surely do the other.

 

[Random Orbital Bob]

Just to jump in here (possibly before a full blown sharpening "debate" ensues). In a way....you're both right ie both using jigs and by hand are right. I think the fundamental difference between them is confidence. The jigs give less experienced crafts-people the confidence to know the grind will turn out right...and for that they lose some money and some time. But they gain the certainty they need. For the more confident and likely more experienced, the freehand approach poses no threat, holds no fear.

Using that assumption I would suggest new users use a jig while they build that confidence, get to know the material, the grinder etc and then start to try freehand as their confidence grows. Jigs and sharpening gadgets can be expensive so the freehand approach is desirable...but not without that all important confidence.

So my ten penneth is that both approaches have their merits...its the timing that's important (ie when confidence is achieved).

There...hows that for sitting so squarely on the fence I've got splinters up my a** :=)

 

[Rhossydd]

sharpening a turning tool is very similar to the action of turning itself.

It isn't in several ways.

As a relative newcomer here, initially I couldn't understand why sharpening was a contentious subject. Now I've seen comments like this so often I can see why.

 

[Rhossydd]

I think the fundamental difference between them is confidence. The jigs give less experienced crafts-people the confidence to know the grind will turn out right...and for that they lose some money and some time.

Absolutely right Bob.
But "lose some money and some time" ?? Quite probably not. You can waste a lot more time and money trying to work out how to turn and sharpen tools by trial and error.

If you go on a woodturning course you're given a sharp correctly ground turning tool to start with, then learn to turn.

 

[morfa]

Personally, as someone also new to woodworking, I've found sharpening to be really easy. Even with a cheap oilstone I've always been able to get my tools to the point where I can shave a few hairs off the back of my hand.

I'd just give it ago ('freehand') and you'll find that it's very easy. If you're that worried, buy a cheap chisel or something to practice on. There's loads of videos out there as well.

Also making a jig isn't hard to do, it's a fairly basic woodworking skill, so make a few jigs (some might not work) but that's how you learn.

 

[Jacob]

The point is - if people didn't have the distraction of jigs and kit but really wanted to turn, they'd just pick up sharpening techniques quickly and easily in a very short time.
I could be wrong here but I don't think turners bothered with sharpening jigs say 40 years ago. It wasn't a problem then, it isn't now.
Turners also have the mechanics already in place - a sanding disc on (outboard end of spindle< edit) is all you need.

 

[Tazmaniandevil]

Yebbut sharpening a turning tool (ideally against a flat disc or belt sander etc) is very similar to the action of turning itself. If you can do one you can surely do the other.

Who said I could do either? My turning isn't great either....
Mostly it is gouges with me. I sharpen straight tools pretty much freehand until I damage the pointy bit through my own stupidity. Then it is into the jig and re-grind to my starting point again.
I simply do not trust myself to sharpen freehand all the time.

I do agree that with enough time and money I probably could do a passable job at sharpening. I grind/sharpen other woodworking tools by eye, but then I was taught how to do so at school before they took such skills out of the curriculum. I daresay if I was given the same level of tuition on turning tools I would be able to manage quite well.

I'm with Bob on the fence really. I'm not looking to argue over who is right and who is wrong. I'm just putting forward my own personal experience of sharpening tools, and what works for me. When I first started turning, I very quickly became frustrated because the edge on the tools simply wasn't sharp enough & I spent more time sanding than turning. (not to mention the number of catches and dig-ins) Had I not built the jigs, I may well have thrown in the towel.

 

[Rhossydd]

I could be wrong here but I don't think turners bothered with sharpening jigs say 40 years ago.

I started turning nearly thirty years ago now and using jigs for sharpening was standard then. They were more often home made, but building a sharpening jig was one of the first things I did when I started turning.
In the 21st century there are plenty of great jigs that offer improved accuracy and a wider range of options easily available that save a lot of time and effort, it's called progress.

 

[Paul.J]

I have had a few of the jigs on the market along with the grinders available in my short time at turning,and at the moment i have the Sorby Pro Edge,and by using this i have gone back to free hand sharpening as it is quicker for me by using the fine belt,just takes seconds.
I do however use the jig i have to re-shape the bowl gouge mainly the rest are all done free hand and always have been.
I was taught how to sharpen most woodwork tools at school and then when i was an apprentice so if you don't have this knowledge to start with it can be a little daunting i suppose??

 

[Spindle]

Hi

My advice to the OP would be to maintain the profiles that you currently have on your new tools - these may not be the best profiles for you, but at the moment you have no way of determining this.

If cash is tight, (when isn't it?), knock up some jigs out of MDF - an adjustable grinding rest will accommodate scrapers, parting tools, skews and roughing gouges. If you wish to maintain a fingernail type profile on gouges you will need another jig, but again it's quite easy to knock one up at home.

The above two aids will afford you the confidence to sharpen your tools whilst maintaining their profiles. As time goes on and you gain experience you can begin modifying the profiles to see if they suit you by 'informed' trial and error.

As your turning skills develop you may decide to adopt a freehand approach to sharpening or continue to use jigs - either way your initial forays into turning will have been aided by using tooling ground to sound basic principals and maintained at those profiles for long enough to learn the basics of tool use / presentation.

If you haven't already got this I strongly suggest putting it on your Christmas list:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Woodturning-Fou ... ith+rowley

Regards Mick

 

[chipmunk]

I'm not sure that I completely buy Jacob's point about the skills being the same as turning, because in turning we're often using slicing cuts whereas the grinding is usually face on, but the two skills certainly need to go hand in hand. We all know it's impossible to turn well without sharp tools and as Chas says it's also dangerous.

For what it's worth I was forced down the freehand sharpening route due to two things - lack of cash for a jig and a preference to spend my early free time turning rather than researching/making sharpening jigs.

Early on I was lucky enough to go to a demo by Gary Rance who freehand grinds all his tools and always has. I know that many pros use jigs these days but there are plenty who don't. Anyway at the demo I saw Gary sharpening finger nail profile gouges - not flat on the grinder platform, but by sliding the gouge up the wheel and the handle out at the side to profile the wings and bringing the gouge down straight to sharpen the tip in the middle and the penny dropped. That was 11 years ago and I've never looked back and have still got all of my original gouges and even my very first 3/8" spindle gouge has some flute left :wink:

I'm not sure I'd say I enjoy sharpening but it isn't a huge chore.

I've read sorts of stuff about people being afraid to waste steel and I can honestly say that contrary to popular rumour it doesn't waste steel to get the grind right. Try grinding the tool and see if it cuts ok, and if it does use it until it need resharpening and if it doesn't try regrinding the dull part and try again - repeat ad infinitum.

Just use a light touch on a well balanced and deglazed wheel and you won't go far wrong. I used a grey wheel for ages and provided you keep it dressed and don't let things get too hot it'll be fine.

The nice thing about the sliding up the wheel method is that you can create convex grinds such as Eli Avisera puts on his skews, or grind away the heels on gouges without readjusting any jigs. You can always use the platform for scrapers which I do because I like to diamond hone them across the hollow grind to get them really sharp. I also use a diamond slip on the inside of the flutes of spindle gouges to remove the burr and I also diamond hone my skews in between grinds and to get them extra sharp.

I hope this helps
Jon

 

[Rhossydd]

lack of cash for a jig

Not sure I get this. It only takes some scarps of wood to make a usable jig. As woodworkers we're all about making things, why should a sharpening jig be any different ?
My jigs took maybe an hour to make and in practice cost nothing. I'm still using them thirty years on. Hardly a wasted hour.

 

[chipmunk]

lack of cash for a jig

Not sure I get this. It only takes some scarps of wood to make a usable jig. As woodworkers we're all about making things, why should a sharpening jig be any different ?
My jigs took maybe an hour to make and in practice cost nothing. I'm still using them thirty years on. Hardly a wasted hour.

Well there was an "and..." and an implied commercial before the jig i.e. "lack of cash for a [commercial] jig and a preference to spend my early free time turning rather than researching/making sharpening jigs."

You were perhaps in possession of the knowledge what jig to make and how to make it - I don't think I was. I was a member of a club and most of the guys helping the novices didn't use or advocate sharpening jigs. Just the way it went.

...but I suppose 20-20 hindsight is a wonderful thing and I know now that I probably could have got away with a very simple homemade jig but then I wouldn't have learned to do without it.

So, do I regret my decision? No I don't think I do.

Do I wish I sometimes had a commercial jig? If I'm honest, yes - but only to see what I'm missing.

HTH
Jon

 

[Rhossydd]

You were perhaps in possession of the knowledge what jig to make and how to make it

Not much of a clue here when I started. I'd read some books and attended a short course.
Making a jig to help grind scrapers, for instance, isn't too hard to work out for yourself really.
The complex mystique that seems to be prevalent on exotic shapes for bowls gauges wasn't around so much then either. A fixed angle worked just fine.

In some ways the wealth of information now available on the internet doesn't always serve novices as well as just reading one or two good books about the basics.

 

[Jacob]

I'm not sure that I completely buy Jacob's point about the skills being the same as turning, because in turning we're often using slicing cuts whereas the grinding is usually face on, but the two skills certainly need to go hand in hand. .....

I meant similar in terms of hand and eye skills. Repeating a sharpening shape freehand is not unlike repeating a turned knob frinstance, in that it's difficult at first but after a just few goes and a few mistakes they all come out the same (or near enough).