American: Why so behind us when it comes to Saw Saftey

[Chems]

I was just reading Woodworking online. Haven't read it for a while so was going through some back pages and saw this:

When Is An Operation Too Dangerous?
§ by Joel Hess on January 10th, 2008

At least a half dozen times, I’ve experienced serious kickback while using my table saw. Not once during any of those times though did I feel that I was doing something that was inherently dangerous. I almost always use my guards and push blocks. I take my time to set up my saw for safe, accurate cuts. I’ve even been known to step back and question whether there is a better way to complete an operation that I’m not 100% comfortable with.

And still, I’ve experienced situations that could have resulted in bodily injury.

Once I was knocked on my keester when a workpiece I was ripping pinched the blade and got kicked back into my stomach. (I broke two cardinal woodworking safety rules during that particular procedure.) I don’t remember now what caused the kickback. But I’ll never forget how lucky I was not to have been injured more seriously. (Or the pain to my gut!) But none of us are perfect. Accidents happen and all you can do is hope they don’t happen to you. Right?

That’s why I was surprised while watching a recent segment of TOH, as a trim carpenter made a free-hand cut on the table saw. Frankly, I watched in disbelief as he made the cut and thought to myself, “Man, that just looks dangerous!” Norm Abram was standing there watching and I thought maybe he would say something, but he didn’t. I figured there would be a lot of people commenting about the segment on our woodworking forums. And there is a debate raging over at WoodNet. But, you may be surprised to learn that there are a lot of people defending the practice.

Several people have commented that the practice of pushing a piece freehand past a spinning table saw blade is an acceptable practice by professional trim carpenters. It may be. And the guy managed to make the cut during the show without any problem. But I can tell you one thing….I’m never going to try it.

What’s your response?

Link to Page

Now nowhere there does he say he's using a riving knife. Surely if he was he wouldn't have had the wood pinch, I say this because he says he uses push blocks and guards I don't know weather that includes it.

Why are the Americans so against riving knives and guards?

 

[maltrout512]

Chems, I didn't see anything about the riving knife either. But some people can't see through the (mist). quote from text (But none of us are perfect.) quote.

 

[Chris_belgium]

I've cut thousands and my father in law probably millions of pieces of (firewood) on the tablesaw and never had a kickback. Probably because there is no fence, the wood can't get trapped inbetween the fence and the blade. Sometimes you feel the blade 'bite' but that's just it, never a kickback. Sheetgoods would also be a whole different story I guess.
This is not an advertisement for freehand table saw cuttin, just sharing experience.

 

[Steve Maskery]

There is a vid on the Taunton site at the mo showing the new-fangled European-style riving knife setup on a tablesaw. It's actually one of the best I've ever seen, as the RK moves up and down with the blade without changing its relative height. I guess it's on some kind of parallel action. So I think the word is spreading.

He does still use it without a guard though!

S

 

[Jeff Gorman]

It's not exactly a fun read, but on my website is a fairly thorough run down on most aspects of circular saw safety.

http://www.amgron.clara.net/circularsaw ... yindex.htm

Jeff

 

[Chems]

I kept on reading back through the entries last night and I came across one where the guy had been cutting a small box project on the table saw and managed to take the end of his thumb off. No push sticks the piece just got caught and exploded taking his thumb with it.

 

[Grinding One]

I was just reading Woodworking online. Haven't read it for a while so was going through some back pages and saw this:

When Is An Operation Too Dangerous?
§ by Joel Hess on January 10th, 2008

At least a half dozen times, I’ve experienced serious kickback while using my table saw. Not once during any of those times though did I feel that I was doing something that was inherently dangerous. I almost always use my guards and push blocks. I take my time to set up my saw for safe, accurate cuts. I’ve even been known to step back and question whether there is a better way to complete an operation that I’m not 100% comfortable with.

And still, I’ve experienced situations that could have resulted in bodily injury.

Once I was knocked on my keester when a workpiece I was ripping pinched the blade and got kicked back into my stomach. (I broke two cardinal woodworking safety rules during that particular procedure.) I don’t remember now what caused the kickback. But I’ll never forget how lucky I was not to have been injured more seriously. (Or the pain to my gut!) But none of us are perfect. Accidents happen and all you can do is hope they don’t happen to you. Right?

That’s why I was surprised while watching a recent segment of TOH, as a trim carpenter made a free-hand cut on the table saw. Frankly, I watched in disbelief as he made the cut and thought to myself, “Man, that just looks dangerous!” Norm Abram was standing there watching and I thought maybe he would say something, but he didn’t. I figured there would be a lot of people commenting about the segment on our woodworking forums. And there is a debate raging over at WoodNet. But, you may be surprised to learn that there are a lot of people defending the practice.

Several people have commented that the practice of pushing a piece freehand past a spinning table saw blade is an acceptable practice by professional trim carpenters. It may be. And the guy managed to make the cut during the show without any problem. But I can tell you one thing….I’m never going to try it.

What’s your response?

Link to Page

Now nowhere there does he say he's using a riving knife. Surely if he was he wouldn't have had the wood pinch, I say this because he says he uses push blocks and guards I don't know weather that includes it.

Why are the Americans so against riving knives and guards?

You have to understand that a lot of kids do not have woodworking classes.
They grow up and buy a house and something needs fixing....what to do?? Go out and hire it done or buy a saw and see if you can do the job,well you see other people on T.V. doing what you want to do...so you have at it and learn as you go.I agree not the smartest idea but if your not in a high paying job you probably can not afford to have it done by professionals.
The manufactors know this and sell the cheaper stuff to the diy`s...

 

[Jake]

There is a vid on the Taunton site at the mo showing the new-fangled European-style riving knife setup on a tablesaw. It's actually one of the best I've ever seen, as the RK moves up and down with the blade without changing its relative height. I guess it's on some kind of parallel action.

Unless I am misunderstanding you, that is actually in the definition of what a riving knife is and does. If it doesn't move up and down with the blade, it's a splitter, not a riving knife.

Or do you mean something else by not changing relative height?

 

[wizer]

I'm confused also, I couldn't find the video on fww.com. My riving knife goes up and down relative to the blade, does it not on the xcalibur?

 

[Chems]

I was going to make that exact same point, I'm guessing steve means for the Americans this is a step in the right direction.

 

[Jake]

I think the Xcaliburs probably have splitters* because it's just a badged Chiwanese clone of a US machine.

As they do not appear to be CE-marked (and if so are being sold unlawfully) they can get away without proper euro-style safety kit like a riving knife.

*I've never been able to get confirmation of this from an owner of one, though.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I didn't express myself very well, obviously

Although my riving knife goes up and down with the blade, and stays the same distance from it, its RELATIVE height does change, because the whole lot pivots. So I have to adjust it from job to job.

The RK I use is a home-made one. The one that came with it (it is a RK Jake, just a very poorly-designed one) supported the so-called guard. I use a home-made guard (or rather a selection of guards for different jobs).

The saw comes with a different RK and guard now. I've no idea what it's like to use. It may even be a splitter now, I don't know.

It a real shame as the build-quality is great, it's just an old and out-of-date design.

The one in the film is on a parallel action, so the RK is always the same height as, as well as the same distance from, the blade.

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ToolGuide/ToolGuideArticle.aspx?id=31896

Cheers
Steve

 

[Jake]

OK - I'm corrected. It sounds very oddly engineered.

It sounds more difficult and complex to mess it up like that than to make one which just goes up and down with the blade and maintains the exact same relationship to it.

I see Mr Safety is using a full-length fence.

 

[custard]

You ask a good question, and one that I've often pondered. In a country like America (where people sue each other at the drop of a hat) why do safety standards appear lower than in Europe?

It's not only woodworking equipment where I've seen this, some American sailing boats for example are amongst the best designed and built in the world, but others are just comical...or would be apart from the fact that poor design and construction makes them downright dangerous.

I've concluded that the differences in safety are down to special circumstances, so for example many American boats are designed for the less testing conditions of lakes rather than sea going. And similarly I suspect that much American woodworking is rooted in on-site use rather than the European workshop based tradition, and so commonly accepted safety standards are that bit lower.

 

[PaulO]

It sounds very oddly engineered.

It sounds more difficult and complex to mess it up like that than to make one which just goes up and down with the blade and maintains the exact

I also have the xcalibur and it isn't oddly engineered, it works the same as any unisaw clone.

The arbor is in a quadrant with a gear on it. The gear is driven by a worm on the rise and fall shaft (with a handle on the end). The RK is fitted to the same quadrant as the arbor (but obviously at a different radius). So it maintains its distance from the blade. but as the blade rises and falls the top of the RK does not maintain the same relationship with the top of the blade (as they are both rotating about the same point but with different radii). Hope that explains it without the need for a diagram.

This design has another drawback and that is that you cannot calibrate the rise and fall handle as one turn near the top of the travel does not have the same effect as one turn near the bottom.

The advantage of the design is that it is simple, cheap, proven and robust.

 

[Ironballs]

The American thing is weird, there were some bizarre rules introduced in the 70s regarding ride height and bumpers that ruined the look of the E-type, 911 and MGB and yet they still do not have an MOT type test. Look at the death traps that regularly pop up on Pimp My Ride as an example.

I was sawing up a reasonable piece of mahogany and being lazy hadn't re-installed the riving knife and guard after another job, consequently the wood pinched and with sufficient force to make me put my whole weight behind it and have the saw stall before I killed the switch. Won't be doing that again.

Instructor at our evening class is very fond of these kind of stories for our benefit and was explaining the need for the foot kill switch on a 6ft lead. Years ago when he had been feeding a long plank through the TS in a pro shop it had become jammed, wouldn't jiggle through, blade was still spinning, he was many feet from the kill switch and there was no one in sight/earshot above the din to help him. As he was struggling to hold the plank against a very large machine he had a check over the shoulder and decided to step aside and let the saw throw the plank into the wall 20ft behind him

 

[Jake]

Thanks for the explanation,Paul - I see the issue.

Whether it is oddly engineered I guess depends on whether you are thinking about how to fit a riving knife to an existing saw, rather than thinking afresh about how to make a saw with a riving knife.

 

[custard]

The American thing is weird, there were some bizarre rules introduced in the 70s regarding ride height and bumpers that ruined the look of the E-type, 911 and MGB and yet they still do not have an MOT type test. Look at the death traps that regularly pop up on Pimp My Ride as an example.

I work for an American company, I was at their Christmas party in California last year and every thirty minutes a guy wandered around the hall holding a big sign saying "drink responsibly"! Yet one time I was fly fishing in the US with a guide, he was happy to have people fish without eye protection which is a big no no in the UK. Bizarre...especially as not one but two American ambassadors to Britain have lost an eye Salmon fishing in Scotland!

 

[Chems]

Instructor at our evening class is very fond of these kind of stories for our benefit and was explaining the need for the foot kill switch on a 6ft lead. Years ago when he had been feeding a long plank through the TS in a pro shop it had become jammed, wouldn't jiggle through, blade was still spinning, he was many feet from the kill switch and there was no one in sight/earshot above the din to help him. As he was struggling to hold the plank against a very large machine he had a check over the shoulder and decided to step aside and let the saw throw the plank into the wall 20ft behind him

The problem with that, and you should have pointed out, that he wouldn't really be able to move the footswitch a long with him whilst he was on the plank so at certain point he would have been between the switches. I guess.

But what I'm going to do in Future is I have a couple of those remote control switches, I'll just keep the remote on me and have the saw power plugged into one of those, if I need to kill the power I should be able to get one hand free to hit the button.

 

[Ironballs]

Ah, but you can, the foot switch is on a piece of cable and you can kick it along in front of you as you progress. Just remember not to trip over it...